Are the Valkyries a Contender? Tier Talk, Juste's Development & WNBA Physicality | Podhalla

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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to Pad Hala.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The last time you heard us was actually Konrado as Brai was on vacation, but how much of the games were you able to catch up to?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Were you able to catch up on all of them?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That was a lot of basketball watching.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was on a I was on a cruise with my family and I was hoping that I'd be able to watch the games in real time because we had internet, but it was just, you know, choppy, which is yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I was able to watch them when I got back and I have there's so many games that I'll jumble together right now, but I'm excited to talk to talk about them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they're jumbled together for you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But you're probably going to remember specific things better than me, uh, let's actually so it wouldn't can router and I last chatted.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was the night or the day of the links game.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the Valkyries had had played the links very well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But there still seems to be a little bit of a differentiation when it comes to when both teams are playing at their peak level, which team is better.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And later after this, I want to go through the teams in the league and do some tears because I think there's a clear one tear, which is New York, Vegas and Minnesota and Minnesota is only going to get better when the feast is back.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then, whether or not you include Atlanta after what we saw with the Valkyries in Atlanta, I don't know that I'd include Atlanta in that top tier.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'd probably bring them down.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the Valkyries are in tier two.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's save that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But think of that as we talk about this game because

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you want to go to the, the links game in and what happens with the links game is the Valkyrie's cannot close the deal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they are up at halftime, Minnesota comes back to close game and then in the fourth quarter, Minnesota outscores them by five wins by six.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just one of those games where as I was watching and as I saw the tide turning, it became, do you believe the Valkyries are able to come back and stop the bleeding?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I did not.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think that the offense was going to be good enough.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they only scored 13 points in that fourth quarter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I think you were even joking about some of the line-ups that you saw late in the game that you were kind of surprised to see.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And some of it was like, Natalie was like, how do we score?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we can't score the ball.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, they're always going to be able to defend, you know, a lot was made of Courtney Williams, because she had said she'd called the ball, uh, ball holla, bullies.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I even saw in a mercenaries a sub stack she did a Q and A and the first question was, you know, how like should we be bullies are we being to mean and mercies like I think, you know, it's all in good fun and it was like one of those moments were like.

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[SPEAKER_00]: we had a we had a rival like Courtney called us out and we were on her and then she got the last laugh and you just kind of tip your cap to say okay but you know the person who actually killed them in that game it was not really Courtney I would though Courtney did close it it was um it was coffee yeah I think that's yeah she was money in that game oh my goodness

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and, you know, Olivia Miles, they actually shut Olivia Miles down, they, they kind of played her the same from what I saw, which was kind of let her shoot the long ball and try and keep her out of the paint.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And this game, she did not shoot the long ball very well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I will say really quick though, what's what, like, kind of stood out to me from that game and like a not so great way is that I think at half time, like they held a

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[SPEAKER_01]: and the links were still only down like three or six at half.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're missing so many layups too.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like you, you, you know, you shut down the two players that killed you in the game before.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they're still only down like three.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So there were like two, I think Gabby felt two three point shooters.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, right before the house did not have a good late game or late moment kind of game like she made a couple mistakes and you could tell she was really frustrated with herself to yeah I mean that's just what good teams do right like it's like you know some of your star players aren't able to score so some of the other players have to step up and coffee did that McBride had moments Natasha Howard was kind of getting what she wanted in the post so

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[SPEAKER_00]: That team's going to get they're going to get bullied like that when they have that small line up and you know keyest strokes I think works really well when you have a little bit more of a one dimensional player like angel Reese at least from a scoring perspective right angel Reese has got one move in the in the pain, but she's going to miss the shot and she can jump.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So quickly, she may even get her own rebound and get a putback, but she's not getting her own rebound.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's not going to stretch out to the three point lines.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You don't really have to worry about that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's not going to shoot the mid range.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's so focused on one thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So for Kia, it's like just be tall.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And she just puts her hands up in his tall and it's not easy for Angel to get to get stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But there's going to be other centers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, then the weekend game, which was, which was Asia.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter what you do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a matter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's just going to get hers and you got a hope that the rest of her team that you can actually play good defense against rest of her team and even if you do play good defense against the rest of her team, they're still going to sometimes make those shots.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so was there anything that you learned from the from the Vegas game it was it got so out of hand so quickly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: just I feel like Vegas figured something out against us and it was like we don't really have many dynamic ball handle or playmakers.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I felt like they were playing hard defense and even sometimes sending to right when someone put the ball on the floor and just saying like we don't think you're going to be able to make this play.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to be able to make this lay up and you're also since we have two on you're not going to be able to easily pass this ball out because you're smaller than us.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I noticed that on a lot of the possessions and

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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the bigger question is like, the links have two games ahead of the aces, but it's like, who do you think the Valkyries could be?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like they have zero shot, like not zero, but very close to zero shot at getting one game against the aces this season.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know if they plan for the rest of the euro, if it's just, you know, if they see them on the playoffs, but like, I don't, I don't think we can beat them as currently constructed as in the same with aces as their current.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Just stay out of seven and eight and yeah, and but I think even with the links like I think maybe we get one, but you know, you like you said in a feast is coming back and and you know the big close games, but they've gotten the best of us, most recently at home, but even that like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, yeah, and a piece of coming back will make them better, but in that last game, like who did in the thesis replacing coffee who killed us, so it's like maybe it would be a still a closer game.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Rather than saying an MVP caliber players coming back, their vouchers are going to lose by 30, no, I think the vouchers are probably still play them kind of well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I don't want to jump the gun here, but I I just wonder like.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like looking at like the the schedule they lost to there could they were coming off of a two game losing streak against Minnesota and ace in the aces after they went on a nice little stretch of like Seattle or like Phoenix Seattle Los Angeles Dallas.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then right before those that nice string of wins was also another loss to Minnesota and Vegas like the their past four losses I've been to the same two teams 11 and two against teams not Minnesota and Vegas exactly so I think that begs the question it's like this team.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All they've told you is that they want to win.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's, you know, the Nicosia set it in the way that she's, you know, played her players and decided not to play other players like to me that's like, we want to win.

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[SPEAKER_01]: now and we don't want any speed bumps like we want to put down the players who are not going to make you know the mistake are just that she trusts and she wants to win and the front office not going for Flage Johnson and instead you know making other moves like they want to win but what do you do when you clearly cannot beat two teams you know like

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying I can't really think of like an MBA comparison where what's the move though what what's the move because there is a trade deadline now sometimes nothing happens at the trade deadline.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It can there be a move made to get somebody to what I mean, I think they actually need two players, like you said, they need another score slash ball handler creator, like you got to have someone who's a little bit closer to valor to Gabby then Valerie or Valerie, then Veronica, you I think someone who is a little bit more dynamic because I think Gabby.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Gabby is all in BA right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She is carrying this offense on its back Veronica's struggling a little bit, but she's still, she's still the organizer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's still the one that gets everybody in the right position.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's just not really looking for her shot as much and she seems to be a little.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She seems to be a little averse to going one on one and jumping into that step back that she was doing a little bit earlier.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's not really doing that right now, but I think if you have someone who a little bit more like Gabby to be a score and maybe that's what they're looking for like, you know, in this five year plan, it's like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: for two years, we got tip and tip is going to be tip, but we eventually want to replace tip with the younger version of tip, somebody who brings the, you know, the second team is the six woman and it's just fire off the bench.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of hayland gen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but she's so small right, right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's so small compared to how Gabby is able to get her shot off Caitlyn cannot always get her shot off like that, but I'm not I don't want to I think Caitlyn's playing really good basketball.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's it's that and then you also need a big you also need somebody who can make Kia Stokes a

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[SPEAKER_00]: four minutes four minutes stint here a six minute stint here if she's actually blocking shots and grabbing boards.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But when you rely on her to play 20x minutes, you're going to see a lot of the holes in her game.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you want you want a big who actually makes Kia a super sub.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You wouldn't, you know, just bring in the size for the shop blocking.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because when you have to run an offense and she's getting the ball and she's just dropping it and she can't make layoffs and you're just kind of exposing her a bit so I think I think you really do need two players now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do our use day report and you know at the end like we always do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Use days kind of in between.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Veronica.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and Gabby and probably a little bit more to Veronica just because of an athleticism thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And Kronroddo and I talked about this last week, which is, we're curious as to why they see her as a primary ball handler when what the Valkyries could use in

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[SPEAKER_00]: uh... chechi spot if you had a playmaker in chechi spot how would that change the dynamic of the offense and right now they do not trust you state to do that but when i'm watching i go okay chechi's little bit of a ball stopper when she's making shots great she hasn't been making shots this year she played pretty well against atlanta but if you had a playmaker in that spot

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're already affording, whatever you're worried about defensively with you stay in in the chat you spent.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think in yesterday's game, she gave up like the first two or three buckets on the other side.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But we know what her limitation is, and then we also know what she's great at, which is the shooting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But if you had you stay in that spot, could that work for this starting lineup because you have another playmaker?

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[SPEAKER_00]: But they want to go either chat you or they bring in.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle Charles for the defense in that spot.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, there's this use state conversation that's in there too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But back to the conversation, who would you rather have?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Would you rather go offense back court or would you rather try and find a big?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that you can get bolt at the trade deadline.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think you try to elevate you state to kind of solve some of the offensive problems and then you go get a big.

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[SPEAKER_01]: until you get another player with size.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You'll have zero shot to beat the ACEs.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, maybe you get another player with size and maybe it's still only 20%, but I take 20% over zero percent.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They have no chance.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how much clearer I could say this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is a team that wants to win a championship.

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[SPEAKER_01]: How can you say that when you have zero chance at beating a team?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Likely two teams, but zero chance at beating a team?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just how the ACEs are, you know,

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[SPEAKER_01]: They won the very first game against the aces, the very second game against the aces me and my brother were attending and it was a close game But the moment that they remember it was really good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and in the moment that they went away from slow size and added size that can still run and, you know, like, no list of Smith and still, you know, help out Asia without giving up like

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know speed and drop coverage like it was just a different they we just haven't had a shot the whole every single time we have not had a shot And I know there have been close games, but I feel like that last game shows you that we went to their house and they figured something out against us.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we had a bad shooting performance and I don't think we'll get beat by 30 again But I just feel like that was just another just a hammer of like they're just they're the better team.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We there's just you know, we're not we're not if maybe

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[SPEAKER_00]: not only are they the better team.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're probably still the best team in the league.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's tough.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like when when you you have to beat the defending champion and you're a second a second your team.

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[SPEAKER_00]: the defending champions got some swagger because they've already solved all of these problems that the Valkyries have, which is inability to close games, which is, you know, when the when the other team kind of goes on a roll, how do you stop that?

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[SPEAKER_00]: How do you figure out how to like not let it get to a crazy level?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like the the aces and the links to an

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[SPEAKER_00]: what the reason why the ace is lose games is because they get a little complacent like the ace is literally like if they outside of games maybe against the links in the Liberty they should beat every other team but you know you get complacent and you want to rest some folks and ace is not going to you know not going to always save everybody when the other teams won't want me when their players are shooting a little colder but to that point

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[SPEAKER_00]: how do you get to that next level well in a lot of it is just experience with with these with with your teammates and figuring out Gabby and Veronica late in the game who's well who's who's going to control the basketball even yesterday's game we can talk about this game against a dream they had a a very comfortable lead

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I imagine, as you were watching or as everybody was watching, we were probably like, okay, it's not gonna end with them winning by 20 points here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it got, I don't remember how close it got, but it got pretty.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want 10 points at the end.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we all were like, oh, here we go again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And when I was watching for,

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I wasn't watching in real time, but I didn't know what the score was at the end of the game.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What I was watching for was, okay, how do they adjust?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because to them, they're probably thinking the same things that we're thinking.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, here we go again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And how do you get that negative mentality out of your mindset?

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you just gotta continue to be in those moments and then to play better in those moments.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But in the fourth quarter,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Again, they were out scored 26 to 14 at Lanna scored 18 points in the first quarter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That was their highest quarter until the fourth when they put up 26 and Golden State only scored 14.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that was the difference between a very comfortable blowout win and a

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh oh, here we go again kind of game so that like that I know a lot of fans like us We're like oh, man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We just want to snap our fingers and they they need to fix this if they are go like you said if they're going to be competitive and Beat the best teams, but I do think there is value

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[SPEAKER_00]: in the regular season of figuring out where this thing is going and the lineups that net uses, net has never coached in this type of situation, either.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That is figuring this thing out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, him is figuring out who do we need to chase?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is all new to everybody.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the benefit of the doubt, but you want to see them improve in these moments.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You want to see them gradually get better.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, I don't feel like they have figured out this fourth quarter situation when these teams are coming back and, you know, thinking about it, we already know how sometimes awful the WMBA refereeing is, but when the Valks are up 20, probably not getting

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[SPEAKER_00]: They are playing extra aggressively to get back in the game and if the whistle is being swallowed, it is to their advantage.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's some of what I saw in the comeback as well, but still they have to figure that out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's just going to take reps and games and that's why this is a 44 game season soon to be 50 games at some point.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it is just going to take time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: what we're a great fourth quarter team when we've got this lead.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, we'll see on Friday against Atlanta again, I don't think Atlanta shoots as poorly as they did in this most recent game.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see what the status of Alicia Grey is.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But going back to your tears thing, like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Valkyries got to be in that next tier if, you know, it's Minnesota Vegas and New York at the top.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, we'll see they play New York again soon.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They got already got one against New York, but that was without a Sabrina in a school that was without Leon, Leon a Phoebish.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that was,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Sure again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Did you see that as she's okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She won't be there again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll sought to say I think sought to their holding her out for concussion reasons again.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, there might even be, you know, questions, I don't think that you can't, you, I don't think you can say that the Valkyries will ever be in the first tier because I think not this tier.

20:15.997 --> 20:16.437
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think.

20:16.777 --> 20:19.638
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but I'm I'm I think New York can fall out of that tier.

20:19.698 --> 20:25.519
[SPEAKER_01]: If the Valkyries beat them again, I think you could say that, you know, the second tier starts with the Valkyries and the New York's right under them.

20:27.079 --> 20:37.281
[SPEAKER_01]: But you can't, you can't put the Valkyries in that first tier unless they could beat one of those two teams and as they've shown, they can't, but I mean, there's still questions of I still wonder like can they beat Dallas at home.

20:37.361 --> 20:42.822
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when Dallas is is the home team, I think they're better than the sparks.

20:44.090 --> 20:45.611
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see what that Lanna again on Friday.

20:45.651 --> 20:50.212
[SPEAKER_01]: There's two games in Ballhalla and then who was the other team that I'm missing?

20:52.673 --> 20:58.776
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the, it's the Valkyries, the wings in the dream, probably into your two right now.

20:58.796 --> 21:01.277
[SPEAKER_00]: It's how I was, yeah, and we're doing it right now.

21:01.317 --> 21:03.718
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not Valkyries may drop out.

21:03.938 --> 21:06.139
[SPEAKER_00]: They, you know, they may not be playing this well.

21:06.939 --> 21:08.520
[SPEAKER_00]: I would put the fever,

21:10.545 --> 21:28.838
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you might, I mean, you could maybe sneak the fever into the bottom of that next year, too, or is that too many teams that year, too, you know, I think they're just just supporting a little bit, you know, I would want them to play a little bit more, um, consistently, uh, to to be in that second tier, they split with the Valkyrie.

21:28.878 --> 21:34.002
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so they are one of the Valkyrie's losses outside of those those other, you know, the outside of the big two.

21:35.213 --> 21:38.195
[SPEAKER_00]: But then you're going to look at Sparks Mystics Temple.

21:38.355 --> 21:45.320
[SPEAKER_00]: I almost put the fever in the third tier, all by themselves because the sparks are going to be without Kelsey Plum for a month.

21:45.640 --> 21:48.722
[SPEAKER_00]: So more than likely, they're going to fall back from 500.

21:49.242 --> 21:52.264
[SPEAKER_00]: The mystics, the temple, the fire.

21:52.284 --> 21:55.486
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're all right there in tier four.

21:56.067 --> 22:00.070
[SPEAKER_00]: And then in tier five, the last tier, you got the Mercury, the sky, the storm, and the sun.

22:01.030 --> 22:03.293
[SPEAKER_00]: list of Thomas is suspended for the next game.

22:03.833 --> 22:06.235
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's how I would do the tears.

22:06.496 --> 22:11.781
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't And and look at this thing is going to change, you know, like crazy when

22:13.652 --> 22:29.202
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when when, uh, Nefisa comes back, because the links are already 14 and 4 a top the WNBA, the Aces are 12 and 5, the Dream are 12 and 5, Liberty 12 and 6, wings, 11 and 6, Valkyries, 11 and 7.

22:29.702 --> 22:32.965
[SPEAKER_00]: And that, those are your first two tier teams that we were talking about.

22:33.705 --> 22:35.085
[SPEAKER_00]: the links get in a piece of backman.

22:35.105 --> 22:41.326
[SPEAKER_00]: They're sitting pretty and and also at the same time with how well they're playing right now.

22:41.727 --> 22:43.187
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to rush her back.

22:43.587 --> 22:48.528
[SPEAKER_00]: You can like gradually bring her back so that she is 100% healthy.

22:49.468 --> 22:53.729
[SPEAKER_01]: She's also like a superstar that you can just kind of seamlessly like like a koai.

22:53.829 --> 22:57.349
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like koai is not going to muck up any type of, you know, style.

22:57.610 --> 22:58.050
[SPEAKER_01]: You could still

23:00.290 --> 23:04.197
[SPEAKER_01]: demanding the ball a lot and you know she could just seamlessly fit right back in.

23:04.718 --> 23:05.339
[SPEAKER_01]: Scary sight.

23:06.281 --> 23:08.424
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so if the valves are in tier two,

23:10.034 --> 23:31.767
[SPEAKER_00]: that means they're playing really good basketball and that and that you know when you look at it that when you compare it against these other teams like think about Dallas and what Dallas is fans are thinking do you think Dallas is fans are as hard on the wings being unable to beat certain teams as the Valkyries fans are maybe they are I don't know if everyone just naturally like

23:32.427 --> 23:42.916
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you told me at the season before the season started, like, oh, the values are going to be, you know, a top of tier two, the fourth best team in the W would be like, oh, hell yeah, like, that's awesome.

23:42.956 --> 23:44.477
[SPEAKER_01]: But right now, I'm like,

23:45.300 --> 24:08.185
[SPEAKER_00]: a man like something has got to change because you see yeah you see you see the promise and you see what they do well but you also see the disparity between like that top tier now maybe the liberty are a little bit closer to the valkyries because the valkyries have been able to beat them but you also know they have the pedigree that the valkyries don't have and when it comes to playoff time.

24:08.625 --> 24:19.050
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they have all of that chemistry, and they have the big three, and they know how to play, you know, strong late in the games, and the values are just going to have to build that, they're going to have to build that into their thing.

24:19.391 --> 24:30.516
[SPEAKER_00]: Now one way, I think Kayla Thornton was awesome against the dream, and it wasn't just awesome from the perspective of, oh, she just made shots.

24:30.556 --> 24:31.997
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, no, she was like,

24:34.092 --> 24:57.043
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm shooting, like you guys find me, I'm shooting this thing and I'm getting this shot up and I'm taking elbows to the sternum from Angel Reese, I'm going to be fighting with Angel Reese for these rebounds, I'm going to be, you know, running the quote, like I just thought, I don't know what her best game would have been statistically.

24:57.703 --> 25:03.365
[SPEAKER_00]: but I sort of felt like that was maybe her best game from an overall performance in Colorado and I've been talking about this.

25:03.965 --> 25:05.405
[SPEAKER_00]: She's she's playing the foreman.

25:05.485 --> 25:11.227
[SPEAKER_00]: Like she's she's playing a big spot in in some cases, especially defensively.

25:11.247 --> 25:13.948
[SPEAKER_00]: She needs to that I think that's her best position on this team.

25:14.628 --> 25:15.968
[SPEAKER_00]: and she's playing her butt off.

25:16.028 --> 25:27.410
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's fun to say, so if she is starting to play better offensively, and you have Gabby, who I think is Gabby's one, she's the best player on the team.

25:27.890 --> 25:29.491
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I think by far, actually.

25:29.771 --> 25:30.071
[SPEAKER_00]: Really.

25:31.291 --> 25:39.453
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I, I see a large discrepancy between how confident Gabby is with that basketball in her hands in everybody else.

25:39.633 --> 25:40.273
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I think it's

25:42.686 --> 25:47.989
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, maybe these last two weeks where you know, she probably didn't want to rock the boat necessarily early on.

25:48.009 --> 25:49.569
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like VB.

25:49.609 --> 25:50.430
[SPEAKER_00]: This is your squad.

25:50.450 --> 25:54.652
[SPEAKER_00]: You were here last year, but I think she's taken some opportunities like you can tell.

25:55.561 --> 25:56.641
[SPEAKER_00]: when they need a bucket.

25:57.602 --> 26:11.728
[SPEAKER_00]: She wants the basketball and even the dream kind of did a little bit of shading towards her and I was like, oh no, let's not run a pick here because we're bringing the pick over and she's going to get double team and she splits the double team on the way to a bucket.

26:11.748 --> 26:13.809
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, yeah, she's she's just so good.

26:14.349 --> 26:15.950
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's so much fun watching her play.

26:17.780 --> 26:29.913
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, so, you know, and I think the use day thing is is the unlock and it just doesn't feel like that is where they're going.

26:29.933 --> 26:30.554
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess.

26:30.694 --> 26:31.054
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

26:31.074 --> 26:31.354
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

26:31.374 --> 26:38.081
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, like, you know, so Jane Kenny wrote a piece, um, I don't know was it yesterday or today yesterday.

26:40.231 --> 27:03.936
[SPEAKER_00]: And she talked about kind of like the timeline of Natalie's comments as far as you stay is concerned and they kind of changed the kind of like when you read them all back now Natalie isn't doing these press conferences to to think about how her consistency of her language is going to be but like sometimes like oh, was that an excuse was that a real thing.

27:05.148 --> 27:19.621
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and, you know, originally it was like, well, you know, she wasn't, um, you know, she didn't, she wasn't with us in camp, so we got to make sure that she's ready to play that she knows playbook and you stay even told us like, she's like, oh, yeah, when I played the four hours, I wasn't even sure what I was supposed to do.

27:20.401 --> 27:27.488
[SPEAKER_00]: And then then it became, um, she had, it almost made it sound like,

27:28.565 --> 27:34.188
[SPEAKER_00]: she wasn't playing hard enough or something or she didn't know how to play hard enough or the physicality.

27:34.288 --> 27:42.433
[SPEAKER_00]: And I took that as like, so women's been playing international basketball for a very long time as a little kid.

27:43.233 --> 27:48.957
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think she's probably had these moments where she's had to, you know, where she's played hard.

27:49.517 --> 27:51.678
[SPEAKER_00]: But Natalie's made that comments about not just used

27:58.322 --> 28:06.184
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, now we're thinking of her as a point guard slash primary ball handler and our friend Costa in in the discord was like

28:08.322 --> 28:25.072
[SPEAKER_00]: That is kind of like using her against what she does best, like the what she does best, isn't necessarily bringing the ball up, like what she does best is playmaking from a position of a wing rather than having to bring the ball up.

28:25.092 --> 28:28.554
[SPEAKER_00]: So lots of these different changes with the use day path,

28:29.414 --> 28:33.298
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just don't know what to expect with to anticipate.

28:33.658 --> 28:38.982
[SPEAKER_00]: They were up 20 yesterday and she did not get off the floor or she did not get off the bench to join the floor.

28:39.603 --> 28:45.388
[SPEAKER_00]: They could have used her in the fourth quarter when things started going all the hell because she is a smart player.

28:45.668 --> 28:46.769
[SPEAKER_00]: They did not go that route.

28:48.010 --> 28:52.214
[SPEAKER_00]: What can you gauge from what we've seen of late about you stay?

28:52.594 --> 28:52.854
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.

28:54.875 --> 29:04.161
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a better question for, and we don't have them on the podcast, but any of the people that are in that press room with Natalie, because you're right, like the quotes have changed.

29:04.181 --> 29:14.787
[SPEAKER_01]: It would almost make more sense if the timeline of the quotes were absolutely flipped, like, you know, the first thing she says is we're trying to maximize her effort, not the last thing.

29:15.387 --> 29:16.048
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

29:16.188 --> 29:19.069
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we gradually get to like, you know, we want to start using

29:26.020 --> 29:48.958
[SPEAKER_01]: What can we extract from this like I I feel like Natalie has yeah I don't I don't know I think that you know you stay is a player that doesn't necessarily need you know the I said this on the discord but you know the the Flage treatment and what I mean by that is just like her specific type of like archetype which is like you know

29:50.245 --> 30:18.394
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of a little bit more of a project because she, you know, Flagek kind of has to add her best, she's scoring from all three levels and she's, you know, an all-star caliber player and I think that, you know, you need a little bit of a runway on a team to become that and I, you know, if you follow the NBA comparisons like Jonathan Caminga, where he might be could have benefited from something like that more or, you know, a jailing green that didn't necessarily pan out, but it's not completely out of the, you know, realm of possibility yet,

30:19.354 --> 30:23.258
[SPEAKER_01]: basically is, but you know, he got a lot of runway and that was kind of a similar archetype.

30:23.778 --> 30:28.163
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you stay kind of as more of the archetype of like she can, she can play.

30:29.175 --> 30:31.996
[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't you don't need that type of runway.

30:32.076 --> 30:33.996
[SPEAKER_01]: She can be put into a rotation.

30:34.236 --> 30:38.838
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's more just because that she is not being relied on purely for scoring.

30:38.878 --> 30:43.799
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like playmaking is really, you know, the main thing and playing out of the pick and roll.

30:43.839 --> 30:47.880
[SPEAKER_01]: Like just some of those first games where she just ran a simple pick and roll and was able to find some players.

30:48.540 --> 30:50.781
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wonder if it has to do a lot with the ISO stuff.

30:51.758 --> 31:00.407
[SPEAKER_01]: where she mentioned that she doesn't prefer her offense in the ISO, you know, getting it through ISO creation.

31:00.467 --> 31:01.869
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's more from the pick and roll.

31:02.029 --> 31:10.658
[SPEAKER_01]: And just how many values are creating their offense from ISO, it's Caitlin Chen, it's Tiffany Hayes, Gabby Williams has been doing it.

31:12.581 --> 31:13.462
[SPEAKER_01]: All the guards are doing it.

31:13.502 --> 31:14.363
[SPEAKER_01]: Chetchies doing it.

31:14.503 --> 31:17.165
[SPEAKER_01]: Genelle just kind of gets catching shoot opportunities.

31:17.805 --> 31:25.111
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wonder if there's something there, but I think that, you know, just some of the ways that they've tried to play her haven't really made sense.

31:25.171 --> 31:27.653
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think as a result, they haven't really worked.

31:27.974 --> 31:32.818
[SPEAKER_01]: For example, playing her as the primary power forward, I don't think is the right call.

31:33.598 --> 31:37.401
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, maybe they were like, okay, well, she didn't play well here.

31:37.441 --> 31:39.383
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is how we think we want to use her.

31:42.640 --> 31:50.703
[SPEAKER_01]: put her on the bench and see how, you know, they do, she does in practice and some of those stay ready games that can rot a post some day or any.

31:51.444 --> 31:57.306
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's an opportunity to basically just use her as, you know, when Chetji's not in.

31:57.466 --> 31:59.047
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you are the, you are the Chetji.

31:59.107 --> 32:05.570
[SPEAKER_01]: You are, you know, the, the, the small Ford coming in to, you know, do different things, but you know, I think they don't know.

32:06.700 --> 32:08.602
[SPEAKER_01]: because they want Kyla Charles defense.

32:09.103 --> 32:13.968
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they want the best athletes to help out with that smaller lineup.

32:14.629 --> 32:14.970
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.

32:15.768 --> 32:19.670
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it, I mean, it's a small lineup with Caitlin Chen and Tiffany Hayes.

32:19.690 --> 32:24.372
[SPEAKER_01]: So you put another player out there who isn't like, you know, regarded for her defense.

32:24.432 --> 32:25.693
[SPEAKER_01]: The use day is not a bad defender.

32:25.713 --> 32:26.534
[SPEAKER_01]: We've seen it so far.

32:26.574 --> 32:28.014
[SPEAKER_01]: She's just not like a stopper.

32:29.495 --> 32:31.016
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, yeah, that kind of makes sense.

32:31.036 --> 32:33.877
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's in a tough spot right now when it comes to this rotation.

32:34.238 --> 32:40.781
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that Chetchi has been doing pretty good as of late in terms of like, I think they've started to use Chetchi a little bit like she was being used last year.

32:41.241 --> 32:43.363
[SPEAKER_01]: which is like not just the catch and shoot shooter.

32:43.403 --> 32:55.315
[SPEAKER_01]: She takes a couple dribbles in and is able to punish teams for putting their weaker defenders on her and just shoots these mid-ranges because the teams are putting their strong defenders on Burton and Gabby from the guard position.

32:55.355 --> 32:56.215
[SPEAKER_01]: So when they have to put

32:57.136 --> 33:00.399
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, like I think Kelsey Plum was even put on Chetchi and it's like, come on.

33:00.579 --> 33:10.527
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, and, and, and they put a recalumole on Chetchi because you put page and az on the two guards and Chetchi was like, okay, I'm just going to shoot over you.

33:10.547 --> 33:11.788
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think if.

33:12.128 --> 33:14.469
[SPEAKER_01]: their is opportunity to do that against teams.

33:14.609 --> 33:17.349
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that she should be in the starting line up and do that every single time.

33:17.829 --> 33:23.771
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that they're starting to kind of figure that out to use her more like they did last year and getting, you know, mid-range buckets.

33:24.851 --> 33:26.511
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's got to be a way to fit you stay in.

33:26.531 --> 33:29.672
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, you know, as easy way out from me saying, I'm not the coach or the GM.

33:29.692 --> 33:32.673
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I don't know exactly, but I know that they need to play her.

33:33.073 --> 33:41.342
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's the reality they need to play her because there is a ceiling on this team and not that you stay is going to make them a one seed by any means, but I think you say is a really talented player, but she's in her first year.

33:41.762 --> 33:49.030
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think some of the playmaking is just something that they don't have at all, you know, something that the ACEs when they were blitzing them because they knew they couldn't pass out of it.

33:49.070 --> 33:52.774
[SPEAKER_01]: Guess who can, you know, you stay you stay can has the vision.

33:53.114 --> 33:53.735
[SPEAKER_01]: She's, you know,

33:55.888 --> 34:22.306
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the closest level of vision they have to like in Olivia miles and you know she's not I think Olivia miles has been one of the best players in the league this year but just in terms of a A playmaking perspective that just shows that the Valkyries just don't really have many playmakers on their team who can do it as well as you stay so Yeah, I'm just of the belief that I've been of the belief that she needs to play you saw glimpses it just blows my mind that you know in a game that they needed the most

34:23.319 --> 34:44.125
[SPEAKER_01]: at that time was that Indiana fever game and she comes in midway through the third quarter and does not come out and they win that game partially because of her and you're telling me that you couldn't figure out another lineup combination that looks like that and she probably thought like okay now I'm this is it I'm in it was not and then she was not that I just don't think I've

34:44.991 --> 35:00.737
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, we've seen moments of like that with Golden State and Kominga where you know, JK was able to kind of do the little things that they wanted, and he would get opportunities, but then when players came back and and crowded his rotation, he would be the odd man out.

35:00.757 --> 35:03.038
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think it's, I don't think it's an apples to apples case.

35:03.058 --> 35:05.899
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they just got to find a way to get her in there, but like you said,

35:06.499 --> 35:12.703
[SPEAKER_01]: that little line up with Chen and he's maybe not even from a size perspective of a little, but maybe even from just like a defensive perspective to.

35:12.723 --> 35:15.485
[SPEAKER_01]: I see what you're saying there.

35:15.746 --> 35:17.146
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.

35:17.447 --> 35:25.853
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone had someone mentioned in the discord about developmental, like they're just not, they have not shown the ability to develop.

35:26.113 --> 35:32.938
[SPEAKER_00]: They've only had one, they've had Chen, but they've only had one top level rookie, which is Tuesday.

35:32.978 --> 35:33.798
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is their chance.

35:36.584 --> 35:41.629
[SPEAKER_01]: But she wasn't a, she was, she was, but she did the, she did the use day thing where she sat out for a year.

35:41.669 --> 35:45.092
[SPEAKER_00]: So her job was, but she was on a roster and she just didn't come over.

35:45.172 --> 35:45.952
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it was.

35:45.992 --> 35:46.373
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it.

35:47.534 --> 35:55.020
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but my point was, is that you don't have to do one or the other.

35:55.101 --> 35:56.722
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to just choose.

35:57.182 --> 36:00.305
[SPEAKER_00]: We are developing this one player over everything or

36:01.832 --> 36:09.165
[SPEAKER_00]: We are trying to win every game and thus because this player is young and maybe it doesn't fit perfectly.

36:09.245 --> 36:10.307
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to play.

36:10.407 --> 36:11.269
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do

36:12.361 --> 36:21.629
[SPEAKER_00]: a molding of or emerging of those two ideas, you stay doesn't have to play 30 minutes every game to be a part of the rotation.

36:22.209 --> 36:33.038
[SPEAKER_00]: You can put her in situations, maybe some of this is late in the quarters or late in the halves because she is a smart player and can handle the ball

36:38.752 --> 36:40.493
[SPEAKER_00]: to where you think she will succeed.

36:41.074 --> 36:51.641
[SPEAKER_00]: You can also give her opportunities that are going to be tough, but that she's going to have to figure out because that is how you learn in the league.

36:52.962 --> 37:03.509
[SPEAKER_00]: But what cannot happen is you cannot just not play her at all because then you lose all of that developmental aspect

37:09.102 --> 37:19.249
[SPEAKER_00]: something that maybe you can use later in the season by getting her up to speed because the idea would be she's just going to get better and better and better and better and better and better and better and better.

37:19.329 --> 37:23.653
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the end of the season, hopefully she'll be at her at the best that she will be this year.

37:24.113 --> 37:29.497
[SPEAKER_00]: But by not playing her, you are losing all of that opportunity.

37:29.797 --> 37:31.278
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would like to see them

37:38.739 --> 37:43.821
[SPEAKER_00]: to me, that says, you are winning basketball games and you are a good team.

37:44.401 --> 37:56.865
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you think maybe you are a one point differential possibly with you stay on the court instead of Kylea Charles, so be it, you still win the basketball game.

37:56.905 --> 38:03.367
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you're not going to lose this game just because you stay as on the court rather than Kylea Charles.

38:03.627 --> 38:05.048
[SPEAKER_00]: But you have to be willing

38:05.894 --> 38:26.728
[SPEAKER_00]: to try those things out, you have to be willing to adapt because what what what what the worst that and maybe this is actually what they were hoping is maybe they thought because of how last season was now some of last season was players going players going back to their countries to play.

38:28.028 --> 38:30.310
[SPEAKER_00]: But they maybe they thought that they were going to be injuries.

38:30.370 --> 38:34.313
[SPEAKER_00]: And that would be a gateway into you, stay forcing her way into the lineup.

38:34.773 --> 38:35.694
[SPEAKER_00]: And it hasn't happened.

38:35.914 --> 38:36.835
[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't really eaten me.

38:36.875 --> 38:39.837
[SPEAKER_01]: Why there hasn't been that many bad injuries as there was last year.

38:41.078 --> 38:46.582
[SPEAKER_00]: So for my girl Kelsey Plum, just my entire fitness who injuries now is built around her.

38:46.742 --> 38:47.983
[SPEAKER_00]: And she can't stay on the court.

38:48.023 --> 38:50.745
[SPEAKER_00]: And also Satin Sabilee cannot stay on the court.

38:50.785 --> 38:53.648
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are like two of my top three picks I think.

38:54.568 --> 39:10.401
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but so, you know, it just didn't happen, the interest didn't happen, you know, you want her there, they, they stay ready games or like this mentality of just be ready for when your number is called and it's like, okay, whatever, like you, you stay, um,

39:11.162 --> 39:15.864
[SPEAKER_00]: can probably see through that being that she's been playing professional basketball for a lot of her life.

39:17.105 --> 39:18.225
[SPEAKER_00]: Latissa Amir here.

39:19.246 --> 39:20.386
[SPEAKER_00]: She has benefited.

39:20.406 --> 39:27.250
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you could say by just being that energizer bunny that she is, though, when she does play.

39:27.970 --> 39:36.712
[SPEAKER_00]: She's got the energy and she can actually block shots from her size, but you also see how other teams do attack her a little bit because of that size.

39:36.752 --> 39:45.875
[SPEAKER_00]: So you do have to be like you have to look at the, at the, at the, at the correct opportunity to get her in knowing that she's going to give you energy, but also knowing like, okay.

39:47.095 --> 39:49.756
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they're picking on her a little bit now let's make another move.

39:49.976 --> 39:54.017
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do the same thing with you stay, but there just seems like an unwillingness.

39:54.037 --> 39:55.097
[SPEAKER_00]: So I, I guess.

39:56.352 --> 40:06.894
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that I would love to know, and maybe there is an answer because she got people asking Natalie all the time, which is, you know, what do you want to see from her?

40:07.034 --> 40:14.776
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Natalie says, well, you know, maybe she just needs to play harder or she just needs to get stronger or, you know, she's not in the best shape or whatever it is.

40:14.896 --> 40:17.257
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm thinking like she just got done playing her season.

40:17.277 --> 40:18.637
[SPEAKER_00]: How could she not be in shape?

40:19.477 --> 40:28.520
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and so, and getting Natalie to further explain on these things, but again, this is not the use day, Valkyries.

40:28.560 --> 40:29.741
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the Golden State Valkyries.

40:29.801 --> 40:30.741
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one player.

40:31.241 --> 40:32.762
[SPEAKER_00]: They are winning.

40:33.022 --> 40:34.802
[SPEAKER_00]: They are playing good basketball.

40:35.203 --> 40:39.724
[SPEAKER_00]: We just put them in the second tier above, you know, some of these other teams.

40:39.764 --> 40:45.266
[SPEAKER_00]: So things are going well, and it's not, they're not, they should not only be defined by how well

40:48.367 --> 41:04.381
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess because of the comments, I've started to see in our YouTube comments because the last couple shows I've mentioned how the the the guy in the US patrol low how like some I kind of get worried about his his.

41:05.002 --> 41:12.724
[SPEAKER_00]: Twitter comments and somebody in the chat was saying like, oh, you know, he's got a little bit more leeway because he's kind of like her marketing person rather X one and I'm like, I get it.

41:12.784 --> 41:13.064
[SPEAKER_00]: I get it.

41:13.084 --> 41:16.485
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't have anything against this guy don't know this guy.

41:16.505 --> 41:19.806
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we met him a little bit at the at the party.

41:20.667 --> 41:20.987
[SPEAKER_00]: I just.

41:21.907 --> 41:31.211
[SPEAKER_00]: I am a fan of hers and we saw the air and turner and Jonathan coming a thing turn sour and I don't think it is at that level.

41:31.291 --> 41:46.337
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's kind of got that voice yet, but you know, you just, you kind of want to see things played out professionally and correctly, so that you don't give anybody a reason to not develop her and that's kind of where I'm out with that, but anyways.

41:47.474 --> 41:52.158
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's end this show and Jim will just we'll just do this for a couple minutes.

41:53.079 --> 42:09.512
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think about the Caitlin Clark elicitamus scenario and just overall it doesn't have to be about Caitlin doesn't have to be about elicis but just like we like I think the Valkyries games have not even been that that physical compared to some of the highlights I'm seeing

42:10.233 --> 42:10.853
[SPEAKER_00]: around the league.

42:10.873 --> 42:13.834
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there was a game where Angel Reese, like, got thrown to the floor.

42:14.694 --> 42:19.855
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, there's this game where Caitlyn Clark goes to the floor and Alyssa Thomas is going for the ball.

42:19.915 --> 42:22.976
[SPEAKER_00]: And somehow has a ball depth fist and it goes into Caitlyn's neck.

42:23.336 --> 42:26.177
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's some like physical basketball going on.

42:26.917 --> 42:31.778
[SPEAKER_00]: And the referees did not even call a foul on that play where Caitlyn goes down.

42:32.178 --> 42:36.239
[SPEAKER_00]: And today they give Alyssa a flagrant two and a suspension.

42:36.259 --> 42:37.779
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, okay, how did you not call that?

42:40.960 --> 42:56.128
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, uh, it's kind of your job to see stuff like that, especially as flagrant as that was, but do you have any thoughts on kind of the physicality and the referring and stuff where it goes because we're not seeing a lot of that stuff in the Valkyrie's games.

42:56.168 --> 42:58.989
[SPEAKER_01]: But I, yeah, because I feel like none of the Valkyrie's players like.

43:00.501 --> 43:16.515
[SPEAKER_01]: they don't want to get involved in that stuff, not out of from a soft perspective whatsoever, but just from out of like a, I don't know, they don't seem to be bothered by maybe players trying to get under their skin, but I feel like some of the two teams or games where it felt like emotions were running high.

43:17.555 --> 43:41.107
[SPEAKER_01]: for the Valkyries feels like both were against both of those teams against the fever and the mercury and you know for the fever from honestly Caitlin whining and you know Caitlin playing really well but also whining and so if you're cunning him you know being animated as well like that can make emotions you know run high and then from the mercury side of just health physical list of Thomas plays where I think it's borderline like

43:41.547 --> 43:47.092
[SPEAKER_01]: She maybe should be getting some offensive fouls that aren't getting called and they're able to get away with stuff emotions can run high.

43:47.412 --> 44:07.610
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of ironic that those two teams I think kind of make had made The Valkyrie's games get close to emotions running high and those are the two teams that clashed and and there have been, you know, I personally did not watch either of those two games, but it looks like they had one of those baseball schedules where Get played each other twice in a row as they are between the dream.

44:07.651 --> 44:07.851
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

44:08.625 --> 44:09.966
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, same as Valks in the dream.

44:10.406 --> 44:34.342
[SPEAKER_01]: And it looks like that first game there was a mix up between Dewana Bonner and Sophie Cunningham, who were once teammates because Dewana Bonner signed a big contract, or I forget, the size of the contract, but signed a contract with the fever last year and played with the fever for like, the first quarter of the season and then something happened which I don't think we still have clarity on where she just decided that she didn't wanna play with them anymore and wanted to get traded to the team where her

44:35.632 --> 44:44.763
[SPEAKER_01]: I forget if it's fiance or wife, I don't know if they're married or engaged, but a list Thomas is on and, you know, that then they're seem to have been bad blood.

44:44.803 --> 44:54.674
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if he cutting him said something on our podcast last year, that, yeah, something like stuff would be nice if if you texted your your former teammates or something like something and and don't want to took that.

44:55.375 --> 45:06.700
[SPEAKER_01]: a certain way and then Sophie tried to clarify it and then that didn't help and then you know fast forward a year and there's still bad blood seemingly between these players and Sophie's waving and pointing to me.

45:07.968 --> 45:22.211
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just, I personally as a WMBA team, I just wouldn't want to piss off a list of Thomas, but I also understand the idea of standing around and not letting yourself get bullied, but it seems like the next game, the elicit Thomas closed fist was a result of like, don't mess with DeWanna.

45:22.231 --> 45:23.072
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it was Caitlin.

45:23.092 --> 45:28.273
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't even so fee, but I don't think my take was like, I didn't think that the closed fist

45:30.303 --> 45:31.665
[SPEAKER_01]: was intended for the throat.

45:32.946 --> 45:38.072
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was intended to kind of push her body down to the ground because so what happened is Caitlin ends up on the floor.

45:38.092 --> 45:40.435
[SPEAKER_01]: Alyssa Thomas dives to go get the ball or something like that.

45:40.715 --> 45:47.202
[SPEAKER_01]: But Alyssa Thomas, she's just like that one player you play with at the park where it's like the football player, it's like damn, why you got to be so damn physical.

45:47.222 --> 45:48.023
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like dryman.

45:48.904 --> 46:09.910
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, yeah, everyone's played with a player like that where they just like are just two physicals like damn like chill out a little bit, but you know, it's a WMBA, you're you're getting paid to play professionally be that physical whatever, but she gets you jumps on Caitlyn and ends up with a close fist around her shoulder area and then the farther she falls the fist slides up to the throat.

46:10.830 --> 46:22.855
[SPEAKER_01]: You made a good point last night when we were talking and it's like you don't make a close fist if unless you like are meaning to do a little bit of harm there and I think you're right with that and it looks like the WMBA looked at that and was like and agreed with you so.

46:24.323 --> 46:41.368
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, maybe nothing much more to look past, but I think those specific two teams, those games should have, there should be a tone set in the beginning with foul calls and maybe the expectation should be that something's not going to go great because of the bad blood seemingly between a few of those players.

46:42.508 --> 46:49.657
[SPEAKER_00]: And the next game, if it's on National TV, it'll probably, people will be more interested.

46:49.838 --> 46:58.548
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I hope for, you know, some of this Caitlyn stuff is like you said, because she's often complaining a ton.

46:58.989 --> 47:00.651
[SPEAKER_00]: She's also flopping a lot.

47:01.031 --> 47:01.292
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

47:02.457 --> 47:16.240
[SPEAKER_00]: And we know as NBA fans, James Hardin, Shay, those those guys create enemies with the other, and they're not like those guys aren't even animated and we still don't like them.

47:17.581 --> 47:18.301
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good flop.

47:18.361 --> 47:23.162
[SPEAKER_00]: They created that and doing it for the same reason that those guys do it, which is to get the calls.

47:24.552 --> 47:31.700
[SPEAKER_00]: and the problem is, and you could even see it in that clip that we're talking about is, shhh, shhh.

47:31.820 --> 47:38.528
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like she's complaining and flopping all that she's going to the floor at the same time a little bit.

47:39.289 --> 47:41.631
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's really, now it's about reputation.

47:42.252 --> 47:57.751
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about, oh my gosh, what is she going to cry about next, you know, and then you have the other side of it, which is, oh she, you know, she's the biggest starting league and need to protect her and I do agree with that to an extent like, you know, we see it with Steph, where Steph.

47:58.873 --> 48:23.702
[SPEAKER_00]: we believe at least doesn't get the whistle and you watch someone like LeBron who's like big and physical and seeming like running over dudes and he gets way more whistle than Steph does who's you know running miles and miles and miles through scrapes and holds and everything but you know you would if Caitlyn is playing aggressively which she always is you would think that

48:28.666 --> 48:35.958
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're watching her and you are not like a die hard standoffers and you're just watching her from a basketball standpoint, you kind of watch her and you go.

48:36.772 --> 48:43.699
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe you could use a little bit more professionality like I want to see you kind of, you know, hold your composure a little bit more.

48:43.759 --> 48:59.814
[SPEAKER_00]: So I could see all of these different sides, you know, like I've said multiple times I like watching her play, but yeah, it kind of gets annoying when she's stomping her feet and clapping and she got a tech for for doing that right, clapping and somebody's for clapping at the other bench or whatever, so it looks like

49:00.394 --> 49:13.053
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a little bit of a drain on the referees too, and maybe that's sometimes why they're turning their head is like, gosh, like you make us upset at you, even though they're supposed to be impartial, but they are human.

49:13.073 --> 49:15.557
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, okay, so the next.

49:16.985 --> 49:26.594
[SPEAKER_00]: the next few games here for the Valkyries they play Friday against the dream in that second home in home game.

49:27.315 --> 49:31.099
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they have Sunday against the Liberty.

49:31.139 --> 49:37.625
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see, you know, we kind of put the Liberty at the, maybe the lower end of that, of that tier of that first tier.

49:38.526 --> 49:40.568
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of that is because the Valkyries beat them.

49:41.392 --> 49:46.937
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but they will, you know, they will be able to get there, get their revenge, at least for this season.

49:47.637 --> 49:52.101
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, this weekend, that is an ESPN game and the Friday game is an eye on game.

49:52.281 --> 49:56.684
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they have a full week, almost a full week off.

49:56.704 --> 50:01.929
[SPEAKER_00]: They have six days off before they play the dream again in Atlanta.

50:01.969 --> 50:06.873
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're looking for some basketball, you got some basketball this weekend, but they didn't have to wait a full

50:08.314 --> 50:08.934
[SPEAKER_00]: a full week.

50:09.555 --> 50:09.855
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

50:09.875 --> 50:13.156
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do we know why there's like a week of a visit all sobering off?

50:13.716 --> 50:15.937
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is it, uh, is it the cup?

50:16.357 --> 50:17.597
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is it the cup finals?

50:17.657 --> 50:19.818
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, why would you need a week off for that?

50:20.318 --> 50:20.718
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

50:21.519 --> 50:22.499
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, uh, yeah.

50:22.639 --> 50:25.020
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right, that is it for me here.

50:25.960 --> 50:27.901
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be back next week for Brie.

50:28.021 --> 50:28.721
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm WG.

50:28.901 --> 50:31.262
[SPEAKER_00]: See you when we see you peace out.