Why the Dodgers' 3-Peat Failed + How the Giants Get Back | Giants vs. Dodgers

0:10 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, we're back with Giants versus Dodgers now Thompson the Clark hasn't been around for a couple weeks because my well, why would they well, no, because my co-host Brad he's been out of town. [SPEAKER_01]: He's celebrating his anniversary tonight. [SPEAKER_01]: He's in New Orleans with his with his wife and so we'll be back next week, but [SPEAKER_01]: me a good opportunity to bring on a drive in now. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought about this and probably bad timing on my part, but I would have loved to have brought you on before the NLCS, because I was kind of interested in. [SPEAKER_01]: I know, I think I knew a little bit about what you thought, but, you know, the confidence going into that series against the brewers who are now, you know, what do they did they I saw the score was like, Oh, Jesus, I was just watching the highlight right now is before we got on here, and it was a massacre today 10 to 10 to one.

1:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and you know those the first two games that series were. [SPEAKER_01]: really really tight like that you know they were as close as close can be and so for the the brewers to go into Tampa and really put a weapon on them that that says a lot to this brewers team but [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the Dodgers did not three-peat, which would have been a pretty crazy historical thing in this day and age to three-peat when we have, we don't really have even back to back winners these days like in the old days. [SPEAKER_00]: So we did, we, yeah, right here, can you win my hat? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's from saying is, in this day and age, it's kind of rare, you know, the Giants [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but in the opposite years, they didn't make the playoff.

1:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So like it's really hard to repeat in baseball today and you guys repeated and you guys were the favorite possibly to win again, but this brewers team kind of put their foot down. [SPEAKER_01]: Because I know you and I were talking during the season about whether the brewers were real. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we both had the same thought, which is, [SPEAKER_01]: They're not real until they can beat the Dodgers and they can prove that they can beat the Dodgers in a big game. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I didn't believe that that was going to happen and then they go out and they proved it. [SPEAKER_00]: They started turning me at the beginning of the postseason. [SPEAKER_00]: They started turning me when they walked the podress. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, a lot of people say that the birds got lucky there.

2:37 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a couple of plays there where it could have gotten the podress away. [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll just never know, but that's baseball. [SPEAKER_00]: You can, I don't like when people say they got lucky. [SPEAKER_00]: Unless they cheated like the Astros in 2017, nobody should ever say it because it's baseball, you know, luck could benefit either team, right at any other, at any time. [SPEAKER_00]: So that should be irrelevant. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but that's when they started to get scary to me when I saw what they did with the podgers and then just kind of like their confidence, they got, they got contrarios there who's just that, that, that, that most was always cocky and he's been cocking since he got up to the big leagues. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, the story of the birds is going to be their bullpen. [SPEAKER_00]: They have this unstoppable bullpen that that pattern of it just keeps on throwing out there.

3:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And no, like, figure them up. [SPEAKER_00]: It was funny, but sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: When the when the when the when the when the race saw them after game one. [SPEAKER_00]: The manager was like, well, he's we got to see their bullpen and then the founder fans were like, well, we got to see it, too. [SPEAKER_00]: And we didn't do we didn't do anything with it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it doesn't matter if you get to see it like imagine if you guys had Aaron Ashby in in the 10 or Scott role, like, there's nails. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but then again, we, there was a time when we imagined having Tanner Scott in the Tanner Scott role when he was with the podgers and see all that turned out and Edwin deas, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I want to get right into it.

4:02 [SPEAKER_00]: This is very disappointing just because this has to be the most stacked. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about the 2020's Dodger roster. [SPEAKER_00]: If you see them, I used to get mesmerized by that because I watch a lot of post game, you know, we have a lot of local post game that do podcasts and a lot of them have the background walk, kind of like what you have there. [SPEAKER_00]: And it had all the larger guys, the roster. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, what a dream team. [SPEAKER_00]: That's like a legitimate dream team, like in the Olympics and shit. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about my guy, Dylan Hernandez. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I love that guy. [SPEAKER_00]: I listen to the show, [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, so yeah, so I would see that those backwalls and I was like that's now that's a roster built to win And we didn't do winning win, so it's kind of disappointing But it's also a lot of silver linings, right?

4:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like think about it this way We waited years for this for these moments, right? [SPEAKER_00]: We waited years from out from 88 all the way to 2020 and then for all the haters you could say to 2024 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and it took us two and a half years to really feel the taste of defeat again. [SPEAKER_00]: It was weird, man, because it's been a while and I was kind of like the consensus with a lot of Dodger fans, like we're feeling it a little hard because we hadn't felt it in so long. [SPEAKER_00]: you know, let's go ahead and be real longer than your average sports fan because nobody nobody's like you said nobody goes back to back anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: So the last time we had any kind of heartbreak was all the way back in 2023, you know, and so it's like it's stung a little bit and I felt bad.

5:42 [SPEAKER_00]: There's guys in that bulk club that don't even know how they don't even know how this tastes like like Andy Pahez, Andy Pahez came up in 2024. [SPEAKER_00]: So he was feeling that little thrill. [SPEAKER_00]: Like when Mariano Rivera and Derek Geter and those guys, when they lost their first big world series, I was like, okay, now that now they know how it feels, you know, like when they lost when they lost to the deep backs back in all one, I was like, see, that's how it feels. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so very disappointing in that it was such a stack roster. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, I want to part of me wants to play the that that participation trophy thing, but I will not allow myself to do that because I don't like to give it to anybody else.

6:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was disappointing. [SPEAKER_00]: It was disappointing year. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the time where I thought I was like, okay, this this might not be great is I just figured. [SPEAKER_01]: Scuba loses game one, but that was a close game. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, okay, Yamamoto's gonna kind of fix this whole thing. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's gonna go, it'll be one one coming back to Dodger Stadium, and that's where you guys will write the ship. [SPEAKER_01]: And when Yamamoto didn't, he kind of got beat around a little bit. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, wow, that's maybe the, the first reality that this Brewers team might be something was when I saw a game too. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I just expected Yamamoto to dominate and to kind of just go, okay, you guys got one, this is who I am, and we're going back to LA.

7:12 [SPEAKER_00]: That's where we lost. [SPEAKER_00]: That's where we lost right there. [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think Yamamoto getting rock like that. [SPEAKER_00]: It really, it took the heart out of everything like it, it was done. [SPEAKER_00]: He was done. [SPEAKER_00]: He started crying in the dugout, you know, because Japanese are very prideful that way. [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like when I was thinking back, that was it for us. [SPEAKER_00]: We never came back from that because everybody, like, now had a decent little run there and to he imploded in that 17 in and then glass now, I thought it was phenomenal, you know, at the end of the day, another thing to that we weren't doing is that we weren't hitting. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you had a school ball, a snow, and glass now.

7:55 [SPEAKER_00]: They kept us in the game the entire game. [SPEAKER_00]: Just up into there were taking out of the game, but we couldn't answer their pitching. [SPEAKER_00]: We couldn't answer their bullpen. [SPEAKER_00]: So, and I do feel like the brawlers. [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're a special team, not just this year's [SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a lot of scuttle, but Gary coming out of this, like it's almost like there's like this paradigm shift as far as what it takes to build a winning team now. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're coming out of that era of analytics as you know, what that completely changed the game, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Now, you know, we don't see four lineups here on anymore because people are switching position players to, you know, match the picture.

8:41 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what got far on run out of San Francisco's [SPEAKER_00]: How can I like anybody when you don't play to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the Brewers, and then to a certain extent, the Blue Jays of last year, [SPEAKER_00]: They kind of reversed it and I hate the term small ball because that's the term that's been very invoked lately, but to me it's just baseball.

9:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Like these teams are playing baseball and we forgot how to play baseball. [SPEAKER_00]: And what the bro's showed is that playing just regular baseball, using your gut instinct, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Your coaches, gut instinct. [SPEAKER_00]: There's no reason why his, he's had the same three guys can go up there in the bullpen. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the same three guys, McGill, Ashby, he, he doesn't, it's, it's, it's very much like this of my guys. [SPEAKER_00]: This is who's taking care of business. [SPEAKER_00]: And into, they proved me wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to continue to go with them. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a little, a little, a little, a little Bruce Bochiasc there. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to, how many times are you going to put your team over without putting them over?

10:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's my question. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's not putting over this new team at all. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just [SPEAKER_00]: while they need a Bruce Boachie to lead the team, not to advise the team. [SPEAKER_00]: So I really feel like the brand of Dodger baseball. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say this very, I really believe this. [SPEAKER_00]: It was exposed in this world series and I'm going to throw another one at you. [SPEAKER_00]: That's very difficult for me to admit, but I got to be real. [SPEAKER_00]: It was actually exposed last year because last year a lot of things had to go right for that Dodger team to win the world series. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be honest with you. [SPEAKER_00]: Like they talk about having good fortune in a lot of different ways.

10:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and so I do feel that the reason why they couldn't get anything going with the Bruce and this in the series where they got swept was because they don't know how to put the bar and play their job is to hit home runs. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what they they just did they they had this very all of a sudden in like game three and four world or work in the wall. [SPEAKER_00]: You had Dodgers trying to bun like they haven't bunged at all year. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like it looked ridiculous. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm like, come on. [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, so I think the big store, one of the big stories that's coming out of this just this team, if they win, which it looks like they are, is they might have had an impact on baseball as a whole, you know, I think going into the winter meetings, I'm sure the lack I was going to be the number one, of course is going to be the number one topic of conversation, but also just what it takes to build a winning team might be different coming out of this, so we'll see.

11:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So when you guys got to game four, you know, it was like, back against the wall, you got to win one to just keep this thing going. [SPEAKER_01]: I sensed that it was kind of like, well, winning four in a row is like, the odds are insane. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it just doesn't have one team has done it in 2004. [SPEAKER_01]: If a team can do it, maybe it's the team with the roster that you just mentioned and with the most insane payroll like you that's why you have all those guys is to kind of create history in a way and I really liked it when they went back to Otani as a lead off hit or only because it was like.

12:33 [SPEAKER_01]: This is, we're this how we're going out. [SPEAKER_01]: And I loved that he hit that home run, but then I also know that he then struck out the three other times. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and what about all that emotion after that home run? [SPEAKER_00]: Cause he never shows the mod. [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't sell for anybody. [SPEAKER_00]: So just the fact that he had that emotion, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because, [SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk a little bit about now I kind of want to tackle and you guys the ship if you see me kind of me and you bring me back in. [SPEAKER_00]: I just have so many thoughts but I do want to start talking a little bit about some of the theories of what went wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: And the biggest story come out of here is autonomy selfishness, right?

13:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Dylan Hernandez has really really in a lot about this and then [SPEAKER_01]: Dylan probably has a little bit more insight into Otani because Dylan has been covering Otani for a long time, Dylan speaks Japanese, so he understands the culture a little bit more. [SPEAKER_01]: He he's talked to Showcase high school coach. [SPEAKER_01]: So Dylan really does have a good read on him, but go ahead. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So the big story came out that, [SPEAKER_00]: autonomy for whatever reason had it in his head that he wanted to win a siren award this year.

13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he goes into camp and he starts pitching and he starts being a two way player again. [SPEAKER_00]: He hadn't done that in a while. [SPEAKER_00]: He tasted last year, but he hadn't had a full season. [SPEAKER_00]: So Ron is coming out through a lot of sources, legitimate sources, that he actually got hurt around July of this year. [SPEAKER_00]: I started with him, I believe his arms started acting up on him. [SPEAKER_00]: And then to compensate for that, his knee started hurting him. [SPEAKER_00]: So there was a lot of like past the potato with him and Roberts and upper management. [SPEAKER_00]: to the point where nobody knows truly if Otali said he was hurt and they continue to play him or if he didn't say anything because he wanted to continue producing.

14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: So it all came to a head in September. [SPEAKER_00]: And September, he was fine apart. [SPEAKER_00]: He just couldn't go anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: He had like, he was like, Randy Savage and on center when he had that big take. [SPEAKER_00]: And he said that big day was lying about his elbow. [SPEAKER_00]: He said, so I'm so nervous brother. [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. [SPEAKER_00]: So we had a show called. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyways, so [SPEAKER_00]: That was a big thing, right, because now it's like, who's telling who's running the ship here? [SPEAKER_00]: That's the big story. [SPEAKER_00]: Is Otani telling the Dodgers how to manage him or his robbers to scare it off him, to set him down? [SPEAKER_00]: So many questions came out of this, but because of Otani selfishness, because he wouldn't go on the aisle, or they wouldn't put him on the aisle, which is don't know which is which.

15:31 [SPEAKER_00]: He was an easy out. [SPEAKER_00]: His performance completely like he deteriorated fast. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's when Robert started messing around with the lineup. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, putting him fourth fifth, he couldn't put him more than six because it would've been an insult to Otania at that point. [SPEAKER_00]: So he'd cut told at six for a while. [SPEAKER_00]: It was bad at six, a few games. [SPEAKER_00]: And there was no production from Otania. [SPEAKER_00]: So finally, they put him on the aisle right about the, when the season's about to end, just to for him to rest and ready for the playoffs. [SPEAKER_00]: But as you know, with these athletes, once they come back from the aisle, it takes time for them to find their groove. [SPEAKER_00]: So he just never found himself. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he never found himself up into the very end.

16:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he hit that home run. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that would've been the start of something, but we'll never know, because we didn't get past that game. [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: The question becomes, Garrett, this is the question that I have for you. [SPEAKER_00]: How do we map is, because I will quote some of our paraphrase, some of what Dylan has said, how do we manage or Tani going forward, because Dylan has said, or Tani's not a regular player, or Tani's a partner of the Dodgers. [SPEAKER_00]: So you have to see him as a partner, because he brings so much revenue. [SPEAKER_00]: So he's gonna have more of a voice than your average player. [SPEAKER_00]: So where do we, where do we set boundaries here where Roberts could, [SPEAKER_00]: give them directives like to, you know, that's the hard part and we don't know the answer to that.

16:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that was that was thing number one that costed the Dodgers in my opinion, the their ability to take it all the way to the world series, but what are your thoughts on that? [SPEAKER_00]: Getting having such a big player with such a big presence that's essentially a brand that you have to manage. [SPEAKER_01]: As you know, [SPEAKER_01]: We had Barry bonds here at the point that's very true. [SPEAKER_00]: I completely forgot because I don't like that guy. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's that's that's comparable for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: So much so that [SPEAKER_01]: one of the things that the writers you so he's mentioned was how big Barry's recliner was in front of his locker. [SPEAKER_01]: I think to the point of where he had like multiple lockers because his things like so and so this is just what happens when you get the best player and you know what he can demand and what he has leveraged for.

17:49 [SPEAKER_01]: But the difference here is [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Barry was a hitter and he played left field today. [SPEAKER_01]: He probably would have de-hched in those last years of his career, but he was playing left field. [SPEAKER_01]: he but he like like he did not want to do anything else right he wanted to hit he wasn't really stealing bases anymore that much because he was hitting so many home runs and you just dealt with the personality you dealt with the feuds with Jeff Kent where he's like strangling Jeff Kent in the dugout that's right because the dude was just producing now this is different because show he wants to pitch and in order for him to pitch [SPEAKER_01]: You not only have to adjust your rotation, you kind of have to finagle, you know, line up and stuff as well, because you have to be very strategic in how you handle his, his bat.

18:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So, like, I don't know, in known as had to do this before with him, really at a competitive level to where [SPEAKER_01]: When you're going to the playoffs every year and then you got to figure out can we do this in the playoffs because if we do this in the playoffs, these games mean more than just a regular season game like I really I know he like you you mentioned Japanese culture and being prideful and stuff like he wants to earn his living right he wants to be the best player how do you tell him Brother you're already the best player even if you don't pitch and you're actually [SPEAKER_01]: maybe you're even more valuable to us if you don't pitch like that to that level like to explain that and I'm sure that they've tried but this is part of the thing and part of the reason why he wanted to come to the Dodgers right is because part of the the deal with the devil is well you signed me and here are all of the things that I want because if you don't do it [SPEAKER_01]: the giants or the blue jays are going to do it.

19:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So you guys go, well, we're going to just deal with it and figure it out because we want this guy so bad and for two years you got two world titles and this year's really the the only thing that that is falling off and you'll have to figure it out again next year. [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I do not wish this harm on anybody, but what happens if he messes his elbow up again has anybody come back from three Tommy John surgeries? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure I would have known if no. [SPEAKER_00]: It's two of the limit. [SPEAKER_00]: Also, I mean, it wasn't really that. [SPEAKER_00]: It was just a lot of like, like the upper shoulder was starting to hurt.

20:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But let's continue your topic because there's a lot to this as far as some of the stuff that that's very difficult for Americans to understand. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, going back to our boy, Dylan Hernandez, he, he brings up this culture of Japan because [SPEAKER_00]: He does the California Posture with Jack, every of his name, the guy that does the beat writing for the Dodgers. [SPEAKER_00]: He, Jack is very upset because Jack is like an American, Robert says the boss, Robert tells you to sit down, you're gonna sit down. [SPEAKER_00]: But Dylan brings that Japanese perspective is like, their culture doesn't work like that. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, their culture is like, I have a dream and also the Americans come from a very entitled perspective, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That their athletes and they deserve whereas the Japanese, they work for everything.

21:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So to tell show hello, Tony, like you're hurt, you got to sit down show his responses like, well, let me play hurt, you know, because because I'm confident that 65% of my ability is still better than I'm still more valuable to the team, even though they got to break through that mindset, that's why that's why Yamamoto will go out there and pitch three days in a row if he has to like these Japanese players come in with that mindset. [SPEAKER_00]: it's like wrestling right they show some of those drills that they do in Japan they're insane like some of those drills to be for the game and stuff so so that so they have to get through that mindset and another concern Garrett is what about if he's starting to show signs of breaking down as an athlete this during three years old now [SPEAKER_00]: You know, what about if this is it?

22:02 [SPEAKER_00]: What about is the voucher organization is gonna have to make a choice, is he a pitcher? [SPEAKER_00]: And when he pitches, we're gonna assign another DH, or is he just gonna be our DH going forward, but then he's gonna kind of be a very high price DH to be honest with you. [SPEAKER_00]: So very interesting stuff with a tiny coming up. [SPEAKER_01]: And, DePaul's best position is gonna be DH as well. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because he's a horrible outfielder. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But for then again, [SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about the second thing that really got the Dodgers and that's age. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they show how they show the rage on that field. [SPEAKER_00]: They're the way they exhibit it, the way they look, the way they play.

22:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what made them come out even older than they actually are, is how young the brewers are. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the brewers were still to this day against the race. [SPEAKER_00]: Like they contoured their bodies to do certain movements, to make certain plays. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you look at the daughters and then one bad move. [SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to be out for two, three days. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean you have you had guys like Freddy Freeman he he was hurt he's playing hurt because he's but it's not because he had like a sustained a specific interest because that's what happens when you get older and you got to play with all these aches and pains I trip on Freddy Freeman because he gives me that Terry fungi whenever whenever he's not playing like the way he walks [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's like, bro, this guy's just holding it together, but then you get those viral videos of him doing the worm at weddings and stuff.

23:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, what the, I mean, they're athletes, right? [SPEAKER_00]: They could do shit like that, but still it's just like, what is it either he's good or he's not good, but yeah, Freddie Freeman's a guy is 3037 next year, but going back to the Paula. [SPEAKER_00]: So to Oscar is going to be on the trade market this season, it's pretty much everybody has pretty much confirmed that because he's got one year left at 20 mil. [SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully a team could use his services and we get something for him. [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't foresee to Oscar coming back. [SPEAKER_00]: So we get Pahez who had an amazing year this year and Pahez is really coming into his own. [SPEAKER_00]: And then of course we have Tucker at right who ended up waking up and being the Tucker of old in the postseason, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we'll get if we'll get if the pile of picks it up, he could be our left fielder every day, left fielder or he could be our DH and we're going to go out and hunt for a younger left fielder.

24:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of like what we're at right now. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm assuming that you are fine with as a fan, like you were fine with them writing the old guys to the end, just to see like, could they do it again? [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's a story, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Those are your guys. [SPEAKER_00]: But see, Gary, I'm gonna push back a little bit because there is this narrative, we were still the second best human baseball. [SPEAKER_00]: Like people forget that. [SPEAKER_00]: Like we still made it to the NLCS. [SPEAKER_00]: We still, I mean, I, I, I'd dare say we're better than the Tampa race. [SPEAKER_00]: Like we really are. [SPEAKER_00]: And really the only team that out there was the best team in base, but which is fine, that's, you know, that's what athletics is about. [SPEAKER_00]: So this idea that this year for whatever reason, we just didn't get it done and we, we need to throw a bomb on the entire team.

25:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so do you, do you try and run it back and maybe make it with justments? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the school is there for the taking if you want them. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think we're going to need them because I don't think that was going to now has show that he's not going to hold up. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, now gets a broke, you know, his, he has to broken now and he's all for three months. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which by the way, the alley media started to catch onto that. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how he was when he was up there in San Francisco, but he started to get very defensive about that this idea that he can't hack a whole season. [SPEAKER_00]: Because he also, you know, when he saw if he's over here, playing video games and streaming and so that doesn't help his [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Dylan does a podcast with my favorite reporter, Tim Kawakami, who is also a Japanese by the way, and Tim has been so negative on snow because of the thing that I mentioned to you where his last day as a giant, they wanted him to take the ball again just to finish out because they needed someone to throw that last game in the season.

26:05 [SPEAKER_01]: They were already out of the playoffs. [SPEAKER_01]: and he turned them down. [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, no, I'm good. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, Calcami has been on him and Dylan on on the show that he does with Calcami, which is kind of where I got the idea to do this because they do LA versus San Francisco in all the sports and Dylan said, [SPEAKER_01]: I think Snell is aware of our podcast because he's kind of I can sense that he understands the negativity that that that comes across from Kawakami about him, but hey, I think I think Snell [SPEAKER_01]: is a product of kind of what you said, which is the analytics style of baseball and the analytics style of baseball is great until it doesn't work and then when it doesn't work, then you're like, well, I like baseball when my favorite pitcher runs out there 32 times a year, instead of, you know, he goes five innings and he's like, oh, those tough start got through five [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think the expectation when you win is the gift and the curse to the team, and I went through this with the warriors every year from 2015 through 2015 was a 2019, 2014, 2015.

27:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, through that timeframe, they were just expected to win. [SPEAKER_01]: And so when they didn't win, it was like, oh, it's wrong with this team, you know, is it over? [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, but wait, like, we just, they just won, you know, three titles in a row or three out of four, whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: And when they wouldn't win, they would go deep, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like they were like, yeah, they were like, right, the one that they lost. [SPEAKER_01]: was in seven games to LeBron, and then the other one they lost was they lost Kevin Durant and Clay Thompson to big injuries in that in that final series.

28:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they went in one in 2022. [SPEAKER_01]: So so like I have no room to say anything about about the warriors. [SPEAKER_01]: They were there. [SPEAKER_01]: They were competing and they won all those championships that I got to see at my own eyes. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's just that expectation of [SPEAKER_01]: it's either world series or bust to the to the media, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's the story is either the Dodgers win or they, they win the world series or they failed as a season. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of a hard thing because I like if you ask, um, you know, if you ask mooky bets, [SPEAKER_01]: was the season of failure. [SPEAKER_01]: I think to the media, he would say yes, because that's kind of what you're supposed to say, but he probably thinks of all of the things that he had to go through this season just to suit up every day.

28:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, man, we got as far as we got and there were moments where I wasn't sure if, you know, if I was going to be able to play as well as I could, it like there's certain things like that because baseball is that long season, 162 games, [SPEAKER_01]: plus all these playoff games, which is just a different journey in a way and you know and now what's the story for next year? [SPEAKER_01]: Can the Dodgers get back to what they were and how are they going to do that? [SPEAKER_01]: Are they going to spend more money or are they going to invest trade off some of their older players and invest in younger players? [SPEAKER_01]: Like how are they going to do this? [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's going to be the story for this year. [SPEAKER_01]: And I know Andrew Friedman's like, [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be fine.

29:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like when we're really good team. [SPEAKER_00]: Like that was the way his he looks at it. [SPEAKER_00]: That was one thing up into the last game, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And when they lost that that game for. [SPEAKER_00]: like the daughters were so chill, like because they've been through this before, like they never got nervous. [SPEAKER_00]: They never freaked out that Robert was commissar cucumbers just watched, he strategizing. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was kind of cool to see, because yeah, we've been through the grind. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, this is, you're talking, what is the 10, 11, 12 years of making it to the postseason in one [SPEAKER_00]: and just going to these different levels, you know, because people forget, we got robbed in 2017, we made it to the world series in 2018. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's other smaller little accolades that we have, people just focus on this back to back thing, but we've been there for years, and you know, we have a Hall of Fame manager.

30:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I just, they never panic. [SPEAKER_00]: They never panic like I've seen other teams panic. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I've seen the like the like the blue jays panic last year or like the bro's panic last. [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't panic as much this year, but last year they were panic, you know, we swept them. [SPEAKER_00]: So the fillies, the fillies panic every year it seems like and they shouldn't anymore because they've been through this so many times as well. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the thing that would be interesting and maybe would be a little bit of like, [SPEAKER_01]: uh uh like a big shadow a dark shadow is what happens with your owner because I know he's just uh he's trying to sell the sparks now. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I put him on for sell today I think.

31:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Put him on for sale. [SPEAKER_01]: He keeps saying he's not going to sell the Dodgers. [SPEAKER_01]: you know, the Dodgers are clearly his his best investment from a sports team person. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's his baby. [SPEAKER_00]: The Dodgers are his real baby when it comes to all these alley sports franchise. [SPEAKER_00]: Because he just sold the Lakers, right? [SPEAKER_00]: He sold the Lakers, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And then he's starting to sell the sparks. [SPEAKER_00]: And he has he's got some legal things going on. [SPEAKER_00]: So, um, yeah, and then as we as this has been pretty documents been public, uh, Otani has an outclass if there's a manager or [SPEAKER_01]: But how much leverage does the Tony have to leave the Dodgers like I think I think a team Every team in baseball would take him no matter what [SPEAKER_01]: But would they take him for what he wants to do, which is to keep pitching.

32:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you have to kind of finagle your entire strategy around making sure that he can pitch so that he can hit and he can have the right days off. [SPEAKER_01]: And you have the right rotation, six man wrote it. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, all of those things are different than how baseball teams work. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I think again, most teams would take him. [SPEAKER_01]: but the Dodgers have had two years in dealing with him. [SPEAKER_01]: So it seems like his best bet would just be to stick around and keep doing it with you guys. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, three years. [SPEAKER_00]: He's got seven years left. [SPEAKER_00]: Three years, yes, three. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you write about that. [SPEAKER_00]: But then again, like you said, a bit concerned is that if the owner has to sell, how does that affect the finances?

32:47 [SPEAKER_00]: How are we going to go in debt? [SPEAKER_00]: Are they going to go bankrupt? [SPEAKER_00]: There's so many questions. [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't affect them. [SPEAKER_00]: They still have all these salaries on the books for years and years because they deferred so many payments. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: How is that going to affect our team on the field? [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say in five years from now, you know, are we going to have losing seasons, which is weird to say in LA? [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's something that's up in the air. [SPEAKER_00]: And it is concerning because I thought he was done selling. [SPEAKER_00]: And then here today, he put the sparks on sale. [SPEAKER_00]: And for when I understand like, you know, WMBA basketball is starting to build steam. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's almost like it's a good investment that he's getting rid of, because that that team's going to be valuable in May in two, three, four years, you know, more valuable than they are now, just because I, you know, again.

33:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you cover a WMBA team, that sport is growing. [SPEAKER_00]: This is a growing sport. [SPEAKER_00]: And you see here by year they're getting growing. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's weird that he's sounding what looks to be a good investment. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it seems like he's trying to get [SPEAKER_01]: uh... a good number back for what they should be worth down the line rather than what they are worth and because i'm sure there are people who are trinkets it's very hard to buy into baseball football and basketball and men and and be a because there's only so many of those teams but there they're you know there's not as many people that are for sale right now they still saw [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the potters just switched ownership, right?

34:23 [SPEAKER_00]: The potters have that they had that lady taking self is with everybody who's I think is the new owner. [SPEAKER_00]: So they're out there, but you're right though, it's hard to get to buy a team and it's not just the availability of the team. [SPEAKER_00]: It's also the other owners are going to okay the purchase. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of red tape. [SPEAKER_01]: Enrod buying into the NBA with the timber wolves and trying to do all that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So hang on to the Dodgers thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, Buster Posey, like, I was trying to think of who would be the Buster, like, Clayton Kershaw decides to become the, uh, the Andrew Friedman of your team.

35:06 [SPEAKER_01]: How much patience would you have with Kershaw knowing that you loved Kershaw as a player for so many years? [SPEAKER_01]: How much patience would you have with Kursha? [SPEAKER_01]: If he was just a dance cap where in the front office and just like, keep just, well, I'll answer a question with a question, which is very unprofessional, but I have questions. [SPEAKER_00]: would give him the credibility to take that job was he somebody that showed some kind of aptitude towards the game or I can tell you when it was because I think the better example would be like Miguel Rojas, but Miguel Rojas wasn't as you know that he didn't have the tenure that that was supposed to be out with the giants or even a better example because when this guy talks base by you could tell he just knows like all kind it's Freddie Freeman like when very Freeman talks baseball like that guy knows baseball and [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I would consider, you know, if that's the criteria to get the job.

36:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So he is a minority investor in the team, which is how he... Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So he was on the, you know, he's on the board. [SPEAKER_01]: He's the face of the, of the ownership. [SPEAKER_01]: That's why you magic Johnson, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Magic Johnson doesn't put the most money in any of these teams. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like the new, he's like the Dui Johnson of, but he's two magic and both they're actually show their faces from time to time. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so he's talking to the owner and hey, why don't I just do this job, you know, we had Farhan and like I said Farhan [SPEAKER_01]: He had that really great year in 2021.

36:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they weren't as good, though they were competing for playoffs, they would just lose in the last couple months of the season, and then they'd be out of it. [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously in the last two weeks, they'd play really well. [SPEAKER_01]: And you go, oh, well, next year, we'll look at how they played these last two weeks of season. [SPEAKER_01]: So Farhan's style of baseball was so unattractive [SPEAKER_01]: that they were just like, gosh, we can't stand this guy. [SPEAKER_01]: We don't like having, you know, a different player on the 25-man roster every day, like someone's getting cut and someone's getting knatted and someone's getting cut. [SPEAKER_00]: That's so frustrating.

37:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And Emily, baseball. [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't like having these openers pitch one inning and like it was just so different. [SPEAKER_01]: And when you have bluster sitting there as again, the big shadow over Farhan, and he's like, I'll do it. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the ownership of his group is like, well, he's a superstar. [SPEAKER_01]: So he's marketable. [SPEAKER_01]: And he wants to do it. [SPEAKER_01]: And we want him to be around this franchise. [SPEAKER_01]: This will be a reason for him to be around this franchise. [SPEAKER_01]: He's, I think, so there's this thing with him in [SPEAKER_01]: So you can't get rid of him now, he's going to, he might be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

38:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So that there's your marketing gimmick for the entire year, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, Buster Posey going into the Hall of Fame. [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to get like five bottle heads. [SPEAKER_01]: uh... dusty baker and bruise boat you by the way also possibly going to get into the hall of fame this year so the giants as an organization just maybe like don't worry about the product on the field worry about the history and then like was both you definitely needs to go in yeah you know both she has what is it uh... three with the giants and then one with the rangers [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the ranges, then he lost when he was with the Padres. [SPEAKER_01]: They went to the world series, but they lost the Yankees. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: So he's the Hall of Fame manager for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Like he's the chewing. [SPEAKER_00]: Dusty Baker, he's kind of like, [SPEAKER_00]: He said, I don't know.

38:57 [SPEAKER_00]: He's very close to me and you because we grew up with them, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: He played for the Dodgers and he was an all-star with you guys and then he came to us at the end of his career. [SPEAKER_01]: And then he coached and he was a manager for the guy. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like the big Murdoch of baseball. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But then he wins the world series in 2022. [SPEAKER_01]: When he's like in his late 70s or mid 70s or however he old he was, he got his, he finally got his world series as a manager. [SPEAKER_00]: and he speaks through in Spanish, which blew up the hell out of me when I saw videos. [SPEAKER_00]: So he should go in there just for that. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm just joking. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's a holiday man. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't with, you know, but Bocchi for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Buster posted I would have to see his numbers.

39:38 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's he's kind of a baseball lifer in a way. [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's representative of baseball and you kind of want to acknowledge him that way. [SPEAKER_01]: He was a really good player. [SPEAKER_01]: not a Hall of Fame player and he was a really good manager for some seasons like he had some really good years with the giants took them to one world series. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, he's more on the edge than about you. [SPEAKER_01]: I think Buster gets in. [SPEAKER_01]: because if you look at catcher numbers, just in general, that position is so hard that the offensive numbers for catchers are not generally fantastic.

40:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And so what it comes down to is the three world series, the MVP, the rookie of the year, the handling that pitching staff and winning the way that the giants did. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's come Bumgarner, Matt Kane, those guys all threw to him, Greg Wilson all threw to him. [SPEAKER_01]: So, there's, there's really where your story isn't. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand the ballot this year that, that, that'll take some of his votes away. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what the vote is. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I haven't even, I haven't even looked at it, but that's why I think he gets in. [SPEAKER_01]: But man, he's not getting in for being in an administrative role. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not sure, my goodness. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, here's the thing.

41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what I saw and looking at the giants. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk a little bit about a managerial because coaching is so important. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the giants are like the biggest example of that last year because they had a great team on paper. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's cliche, right? [SPEAKER_00]: We always say, oh, a great team on paper. [SPEAKER_00]: But there's no, I mean, and I guess at the tailback, I'll tell land of the season, they got bit by the injury bug and we got through the season, I'll just for that. [SPEAKER_00]: they should have been a lot better than they were. [SPEAKER_00]: Cause the talent, especially that infield they got, you know, that $1 billion infield. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it came down to just poor coaching, poor managing, and it was evident to me. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's where I am with that, with the child.

41:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I did, they underperformed, for sure, that didn't feel that you're talking about, underperformed, Adamus, now the storyman, the story going into the off season and maybe to get people excited for next year was, well, Adamus was probably hurt, and he was playing through it or something, right? [SPEAKER_01]: That's gonna be the conversation to get fans excited. [SPEAKER_01]: uh, Chapman is older. [SPEAKER_01]: He can, he's having trouble staying healthy. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and, you know, they have the kid, Bryce Eldridge, who he endeavors kind of do the same thing. [SPEAKER_01]: They either DH or they play first base and so they're kind of [SPEAKER_01]: Um, duplicative in that way. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then whomever they put at second base, whether it's Casey Schmidt or, you know, they they sign somebody whatever it is.

42:29 [SPEAKER_01]: They're just they're at that point with players where. [SPEAKER_01]: And you've seen the Dodgers have traded off so many prospects, but they also graduated a good number of prospects like you remember when will Smith was it was a prospect coming up like the giants have these guys where they're a little bit too old. [SPEAKER_01]: and if they're not producing, they're then expensive, whereas you kind of want players before they get that big free agent deal because they're more valuable for the money that you pay them so that you could fill out the roster and the giant just pulled all of their money into these three players.

43:11 [SPEAKER_01]: and two of them just underperformed like crazy and that's definitely came around. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's not a good season. [SPEAKER_00]: I saw his numbers before he went on the aisle for the rest of the year. [SPEAKER_00]: He was decent. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought his numbers were pretty good. [SPEAKER_00]: And he seemed motivated because he's, you know, there was some kind of a moody guy. [SPEAKER_00]: So he seemed motivated there, even though they had a loosey season. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because this is going to think about their own contractors, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So it motivates them to pick up their game. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I don't know about Shaman or Adam is, I don't know how they were doing before they got hurt like you said, Shaman's a little older now and he's getting older. [SPEAKER_00]: But I'll tell you, we're on the same boat as the Giants are because we got Mookie for another seven and he's already showing signs of breaking.

43:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Now he's already got, he's going to be 33 next year. [SPEAKER_01]: Are they going to move him back to the Alfield? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, hopefully. [SPEAKER_00]: The scuttle buddy is that we're going to go after the, uh, the la Cruz from the red. [SPEAKER_00]: So he's a free agent this year. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and we are, and we'd like you say, we got the prospects to give up for them. [SPEAKER_00]: And then also, um, Freeman's getting older. [SPEAKER_00]: We are the we only have one year left with him. [SPEAKER_00]: This is coming. [SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be his last year. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So we have an older box of two. [SPEAKER_00]: And I see I see the dilemma where these guys, we kind of get stuck with them like you said, we get on the big money during their contract year, which is like they're six year in the league or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, for Muki was for Freeman he was he yeah, he was on his second big contract.

44:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so so we so I think a good general manager or or based operations guy, they know how to how to maneuver all that right how to keep you thumb to field while keeping some veteran bats in there. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, because look at the broards. [SPEAKER_00]: What do they got? [SPEAKER_00]: They got a Christian Yaleck. [SPEAKER_00]: He's the only veteran on the team. [SPEAKER_00]: He's the only 200 plus minute. [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody else is like this, you know, youth got youth moves back there. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know, it's hard to be a good GM, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, so Dale Cruz turned down a long term contract with the reds and like, I get it because again, [SPEAKER_01]: they want to get to that place in free agency where they can sign for the big money.

45:25 [SPEAKER_01]: De La Cruz still has three more arbears left. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you did go after him, you would have to trade the value of what those three arbears are. [SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, and then maybe he would, he would sign a long term deal with you guys. [SPEAKER_01]: But um, dad, that's an interesting one. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the giants are going to do in the free agent market, what they're trying to sell the fans on is their farm system because they have this kid, uh, host Swargon Zollis who is probably next year will be like a top five or top seven prospect in all of baseball.

46:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And then they did a picture or see a short stop. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and then they drafted this kid Jackson Flora who is [SPEAKER_01]: I think he kind of reminds me a little bit of lintacum in a way in just like his body and such he's I think he's a little bit bigger than lintacum. [SPEAKER_00]: He played the end of last year or like this past season this season. [SPEAKER_01]: He pitched, um, he pitched in San Jose, which is what really close to where I live. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like man, like I should have gone out and seen, but you know, he pitched one inning and like or two winnings or whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, he was like, you know, those guys at that [SPEAKER_01]: and he's facing guys who are good players and he's just blowing it by them and just like they can't touch them.

46:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So that, you know, they're selling the team on that Jackson Flora. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he doesn't make it to the bigs next year, but you could see it, you know, the following season, and they got they have a lot of these young infielders who are coming up, you know, in the in the double a part of the minors, so that's where all you're exciting prospects are and I think that's what the giants trying to sell the fans on is like, look. [SPEAKER_01]: We got these guys now maybe we can use them to trade because they sit, they have such a hard time signing guys in free agency, especially hitters and so it's kind of like divers where you have to give up something to get somebody to come play there, but I don't you know San Francisco is a big city right like if you put a losing baseball team out there.

47:45 [SPEAKER_01]: maybe those fans go to some else on those days, you know, during the week because what's happening this year? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, actually they drew so well up until the end of the season. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that was what was kind of driving a lot of the real hardcore fans crazy because they're like, [SPEAKER_01]: This team sucks how are we how are they drawing so many fans to come to the games and it was kind of what you said like the bubble heads and just the marketing department. [SPEAKER_01]: So good. [SPEAKER_01]: All the gimmicks and then you sell the Dodgers coming in you sell all these other teams like that's why we have interly play so much right is to just you're selling scarcity in a way. [SPEAKER_00]: So, but that's yeah, it's not even scarcity anymore, let's just part of the season.

48:28 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, if every other year or every three years, the Red Sox come into town, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So Yankees, well Yankees always draw. [SPEAKER_01]: And and so yeah, so I don't know what next year's team is going to look like. [SPEAKER_01]: It's probably going to look roster wise similar to this year. [SPEAKER_01]: But there are going to be things that Buster has to acknowledge. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't know if you know this, but so. [SPEAKER_01]: uh uh he was on the local radio station the one that I used to work at when I was much younger is like the place where I went to intern like this was like I want to work here like at a college that kind of thing so he goes on the radio station and they ask him some questions and he's kind of big time and like not big time but he's like being you know he's being Mr. Superstar and he's like yeah I saw y'all wanted me to go and sign Edwin Diaz how's that worked out this is when Diaz got hurt [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, okay dude, like you aren't in the role of to be these guys buddy, like you're in this role to be this leader of this baseball team and so he got a lot of flag for that.

49:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's kind of cowardly, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, like, making these statements after the fact or whatnot, because that that's the reason what about his entire infield. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, but what he was basically saying was. [SPEAKER_01]: All of you media and you fans who want us to go and get these guys, they're not always the right guys to get, which is essentially what he was saying. [SPEAKER_01]: But I can take that because I kind of get it from the perspective of like, he's not a regular executive. [SPEAKER_01]: He's a famous baseball player. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit different, right? [SPEAKER_01]: But I've had this conversation with you. [SPEAKER_01]: It was the way that the giant's organization handled the pride-night thing that really turned me off.

50:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Because this season, now I don't know this for sure because I don't have track of this, but that ballpark has been open since 2000, [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is the first year that I didn't go to a game. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow, I don't know that. [SPEAKER_01]: And some of it was, they were bad. [SPEAKER_01]: But once that pride night thing happened and buster himself kind of hid in the shadows of that whole thing, I was like, man, like, [SPEAKER_01]: I would have expected the giants to be kind of on top of that situation, not hiding behind that situation.

51:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, yeah, I don't need to go. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm going to go back next year. [SPEAKER_01]: Like that was my protest was not going this year. [SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy going to that place too much. [SPEAKER_01]: I even told my kids, you know, I was like, we should probably go to opening day, opening day. [SPEAKER_00]: That was really fun. [SPEAKER_01]: It's still my car in the parking lot. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but, but yeah, like, you know, that that was this year, this was kind of the year from hell. [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen some poor years that the second year that I can really remember following the giants, like when I was a little kid like when I was like dialed in was 1985 and they lost 100 games. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's like the worst team in San Francisco history.

51:45 [SPEAKER_01]: There were some moments where I was wondering if they're going to get to a hundred this year. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, are they going to get to a hundred losses? [SPEAKER_01]: Like when I was, you know, nine years old watching these guys, but they didn't. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, we were really bad year. [SPEAKER_00]: We've had a we've had quite a few. [SPEAKER_00]: My thing more than the giants and really bad years because our last one was in 2005, where we lost like 90 games. [SPEAKER_00]: So what about the manager? [SPEAKER_00]: Or what is what does he stand and don't even know what his future look like? [SPEAKER_00]: What the giants? [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's going to be back at least for this year. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if he's not, then he's completely scapegoated, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Then then that's like you're saying that he's the reason why and you've been, you've been, you've been, you've been, I don't want to say you're defending him, but you haven't been as disappointed with him as other giants fans I've talked to and myself and just for what I see, I think it was just about my expectation with who he is, right?

52:43 [SPEAKER_01]: like when I so very early in the season. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's spring training and he holds court with the reporters. [SPEAKER_01]: And he basically kind of chastizes them for doing their job, which was reporting right that he had taken this job. [SPEAKER_01]: And his beef was he hadn't been able to tell his players yet that he was leaving the college team. [SPEAKER_01]: And so at that moment, I was like, okay, he doesn't get it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like he completely does not understand the stage that he is on. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so then you go, okay, maybe your hope is that he learns on the job and that he is a professional.

53:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And this dude who's given, now you would have probably got a kick out of this, if you saw it, he's given dialogue from the town, the Ben Affleck movie. [SPEAKER_00]: I saw some of his interviews out there. [SPEAKER_00]: He's not as, he's not as, as wacky as Pat Murphy, but he's up there. [SPEAKER_01]: And, and so my co-host for Thompson Clarke, he hates this even more than I do. [SPEAKER_01]: But they'll ask him a question. [SPEAKER_01]: And he won't answer the question with like a solution. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, you have a problem. [SPEAKER_01]: What's the problem with this? [SPEAKER_01]: And some people go, [SPEAKER_01]: around about like pop culture saying colloquialism thing, and it's like, what are we as fans supposed to take from this that you don't really know what the problem is?

54:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Because like we can tell you what we think the problem is, I don't know if he's sticking up for his players, if he just doesn't like the media, if he doesn't like the spot, whatever it is, he's really bad at that [SPEAKER_01]: uh as hardcore fans is kind of how he handles those questions other than on the field when we watch him kind of, you know, bungle his bullpen and stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think I think what you want and and really my concern about Vatela was even about Vatela. [SPEAKER_01]: It was about Buster. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Buster was managed by Bruce Boachie. [SPEAKER_01]: So he knows what a professional baseball manager looks like.

55:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So if he decides that Tony Vatello is gonna be the guy that he rides with. [SPEAKER_01]: But tell us, got to be the good. [SPEAKER_01]: Like he can't be this joke kind of guy or this like fraud manager. [SPEAKER_01]: And so it was more like me going like, okay, I think I don't think Buster would have paid for this guy to come over if he was just this fraud. [SPEAKER_01]: He seemed like a fraud here. [SPEAKER_01]: That's for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, from what I was seeing like a car knee, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Just trying to, about a word salad and trying to, he says a lot of nothing. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, you see on the field too with his management style, like I just don't feel like the giant shot of losses many games as they did this year.

55:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know they were limited, especially towards the tail end of the year, but still a lot of it is on managing and coaching. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what that's kind of what I will look at next year for the team, even if it's just not the teller, what about his coaching staff? [SPEAKER_00]: What are they planning on all this? [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that's kind of what that's kind of where I would look at because the giants are talented, there's talent there even I don't want to admit it, but I have to say it because it's a truth. [SPEAKER_00]: It just they have to be led, you know, and they didn't have good leadership this year. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean think about it, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like. [SPEAKER_01]: Not only, it's like, okay, Giants play the Dodgers and it's like, oh man, show hey, oh man, Yamamoto, you know, school will at the end of the year.

56:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you look at the manager and you're like, man, like Dave Roberts, like just professional dignified, just everything that kind of, [SPEAKER_01]: Expresses what you want out of a manager now, you know, he, he, he gets some flag for back in the days of, you know, being like an iPad manager or whatever, right. [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, there's so much respect there because he's done it for so long and you know, he played and you liked him as a player and I personally have a little bit of like a fandom for him because I'm like, man, that you know, this guy's half Japanese like there's not many Asian people in in leadership roles in in professional sports.

57:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And so to have that and then I have my guy who's quoting the town in post game press conferences like it's not an even fight right no like it's just it's just like I just feel like you know even at the manager aspect it's like it's like this it's like we're way down here and you guys got Robert so. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you, you would hope it seems like like, you know, he was a big fish and a small pawn for a long time. [SPEAKER_00]: Then he kind of went to the big leagues where like you said he was kind of out of his league for a while. [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully he learned from that, you know, hopefully he listens because didn't they also set a mob with a lot of mentors around him kind of like to just, you know, guide him and [SPEAKER_01]: Bocchi is there.

57:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Bocchi is there. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're there. [SPEAKER_01]: They're phone call away. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, they're at events and such, but they're their special assistants, I think, in a way where they can just be consultants. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what those relationships are like. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, Bocchi. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, was getting calls in the middle of the night saying, how do I fix this? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: If I had both easier, I definitely would call them at all times because that guy won four championships and even, you know, he went to five, four series. [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, he's got to know how to do something, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So, I would definitely do that, but yeah, that's kind of what I see. [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully, you know, Vitali learns from this and then comes back next year and, uh, [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the National League West is going to be pretty much the same unless Andrew Friedman kind of takes it apart himself to fix this here and then he does something crazy which wouldn't surprise me.

58:48 [SPEAKER_00]: But then again, he might not have the finances to work with this this time around. [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know how we're going to do with school. [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody wants them. [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't that impressed with them to be like the 400 million price tag I'm hearing about. [SPEAKER_00]: That's insane for somebody that's only going to work every five days. [SPEAKER_00]: This is insane. [SPEAKER_00]: But then again, somebody will give it to him. [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully he's not us. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, I think it were to write with the team we have now, right, mine is the free agents like Kikaren and this has gone. [SPEAKER_00]: Miga Rojas has gone, there's a couple of pictures that are gone. [SPEAKER_00]: They're all older by the way, which is good. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're still going to be in the hunt. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're still going to be contending.

59:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We have the team to go all the way. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know about that. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would have to see what kind of moves we make in the off season. [SPEAKER_00]: But all things being equal to team we have now, I think we have a playoff contender for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: And for the Giants, and this is something that I always have talked to Brad about. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to even hear about the possibility of making that last wild card or whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: I first want to see them get to 500, like they would, you know, there have been seasons, even in the past like several years where all of a sudden they're like six or seven games over 500 and then you're starting to talk yourself into like maybe this team is good.

1:00:17 [SPEAKER_01]: they have not every time they do this, they kind of go back to what below average. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I want to see it. [SPEAKER_01]: The second half is like a disaster. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to see it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not I'm not predicting anything. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not looking forward to anything until they can prove to me that they can actually play 500 baseball. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we there there's a Chicago white, white socks has proved that anything is possible. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, before we get out of here, let's quickly talk about expectations for the lockout. [SPEAKER_01]: What are you hearing? [SPEAKER_01]: Because I mean, the big conversation about the lockout is the teams who spend the most money versus the teams who don't spend any money.

1:00:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And the giants have a high payroll, too. [SPEAKER_01]: But it seems like the biggest spotlight is on the Dodgers. [SPEAKER_01]: What are what are people [SPEAKER_00]: What's funny because the media has really muddled up the real issues, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because they always say, oh, the, for example, there was this joke. [SPEAKER_00]: It was, I was a joke, nobody took it seriously, but that the Dodgers purposely dropped this series to the brewer so that you're going to have the two small marketing make it. [SPEAKER_00]: And, but what people forget is that, [SPEAKER_00]: The Dodger owner also wants a salary cap. [SPEAKER_00]: He's with the owners. [SPEAKER_00]: The owners are all unified in this idea of puckering more money for themselves. [SPEAKER_00]: The Dodgers are not this isolated island that are prof, it's fan friendly.

1:01:44 [SPEAKER_00]: They also want the same thing that all of the other owners want. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so I think it's, I do think it's very unfair. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the narrative is unfair, you know, because as we've seen, you know, we had, what is it the only big market team that made it to the, to the last four was the Dodgers. [SPEAKER_00]: And, and last year, I mean, would you consider the blue jista of a, a small market team? [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think they're a pretty decent size. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they have the all of Canada to themselves, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true. [SPEAKER_00]: Because I know that you, you, you, you, you, you, you can't because I brought this argument to you, gluten text. [SPEAKER_00]: And you were saying that this year was, you know, it wasn't the norm. [SPEAKER_00]: Like usually you'll have the bigger market teams in the middle of that towards the end.

1:02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But then again, the question should switch over to resources because you brought our resources more so than competitive, you know, because if you put athletes on the field, it's a wild card right you could have a small market team or athletes are athletes and they're going to perform depending on how much they want and there's a lot of different variables specific to the athleticism of that's on the field, but what you brought up was [SPEAKER_00]: the resources and that's the unfair because the Dodgers have a lot more resources to make moves and a lot of other teams. [SPEAKER_00]: That was the real argument was it wasn't so much what we see on the field. [SPEAKER_00]: It was the various resources to be able to put the talent on the field. [SPEAKER_00]: That's unfair. [SPEAKER_00]: And I do agree with you on that because we do have, I mean, obviously we have the TV contract [SPEAKER_00]: That I think only the Yankees have other than us, you know, not a lot of teams have that kind of contract with their television partners and then now there's a lot of teams that are losing that too, you know, the local nice team networks are kind of they're not there anymore, they won't be fined future.

1:03:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so there's that and then. [SPEAKER_00]: I know that the owners, if they can't have the salary cap, they want to make more revenue to the TV rights and so that brought up the 154 game season with the longer playoffs. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Because there's more revenue in the playoff games and there is in rare season games. [SPEAKER_00]: Are the. [SPEAKER_00]: are the players going to go for that. [SPEAKER_00]: So because if they say, yes, they're going to want to want to bigger, they're going to want to bigger cut of the playoffs and it's going to well, then that's going to the value every because it's like, so it's going to be interesting where there's goals baseball has made some very smart moves in the last five years. [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, the pitch clock has worked out tremendously.

1:04:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Something, you know, I don't know if these pickoff [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I get it making the bases a little bit bigger helps the stolen bases that the giant still don't sell any bases, so I'm not sure because I don't want you to steal bases is too much of a risk for what you're going to get right right but I would say that they've made some some really smart moves so I like where the sport is headed I think I think one of the [SPEAKER_00]: Except for the games on Netflix, that's the bad move. [SPEAKER_00]: They're all horrible. [SPEAKER_00]: Everything's single one of them. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I understand trying to eventize some of these games, but there's just too much product when there's too much product.

1:05:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very hard to make it. [SPEAKER_01]: You know what is it? [SPEAKER_01]: It's trying to end it for part. [SPEAKER_01]: They try to end it for part. [SPEAKER_00]: They try to end it for part of the game so much. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it was like you brought up a great point right now. [SPEAKER_00]: It works for the NFL because they're not playing every day. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a little scarcity in baseball except for if you're a local fan and the Red Sox come to the San Francisco once every three years that one time that they're there then that's when you want to go because you haven't seen them but here here's the thing that I pay attention to sports media pretty closely and the thing that the thing that has come out is that the reason why these owners want the salary cap.

1:05:46 [SPEAKER_01]: in addition to the things that we've already said is that they believe it'll make the franchises more valuable because they see the NFL franchises in the NBA franchises just going for crazy amounts of money and they don't see their franchises appreciating as fast and they think that [SPEAKER_01]: part of that reason is because there is no salary cap and those other sports are salary caped. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's an interesting thing too because if not now, if you tell that to Bryce Harper, right, Bryce Harper was going to, he's going to scream in yell at the commissioner for bringing it up, but then [SPEAKER_01]: Tell Bryce Harper that his owner wants a salary cap just so the franchise appreciates more than it would without one he's going to be like, well, why do I care like I'm not getting a piece of that and if you get way of the like the school before on a million dollars salary.

1:06:48 [SPEAKER_01]: If he's going to give me a piece of that, if I, if me as the, you know, one of the most popular players in Philly's history, if I get a sliver of that as part of my deal, then maybe I'm invested into helping you and your franchise be more. [SPEAKER_01]: But if I don't have, if nothing comes out of that for me, why do I care that you filthy, wealthy guys just become filthier and wealthier? [SPEAKER_01]: like that. [SPEAKER_00]: And then that's what we're going to get like we got back in 94. [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be calling each other greedy, you know, because remember, from the owners perspective, like somebody like Coltani, the owners are like, well, what else do you want? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you got $700 million and, you know, and, and it's, that's why the unions are important because the union protects them is like, no, if, if we, if we are going to create revenue, we are going to share it equally.

1:07:40 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and that's where the units are important and they've been getting their way. [SPEAKER_00]: Baseball has a lot of like pro player, you know, amenities that a lot of other sports don't have. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, you would think that the NFL, that their players association would have so much leverage, but they don't. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because in the NFL, you could cut a player and not have to pay them if they get [SPEAKER_00]: not really basketball either right so yeah there's there's a lot of player rights and player amenities [SPEAKER_00]: I do foresee we're probably going to have a short season next season, just because it seems like everybody has their claws into what they want and they're not going to be bugging.

1:08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But then it's like everything, they're going to want, once we get closer to the season, their waters are going to start to feel the pinch and it's going to be okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's work something out and they could do something to where they'll sign something off for a year just to get them next season and they'll find a way. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was trying to get a but I wanted about just to win a third ring before we go into this mess because it's going to be a minute before there's a good chance we're not we're not going to be able to build that kind of team again, you know, if they do implement a salary cap, do you think that we're going to have they're going to speed race to the free agency because they got to get to it before the lock out so do you think that we're going to start seeing all these move because the players don't want to wait because it's like I think some of the I think the guys who.

1:09:10 [SPEAKER_01]: feel like they have the most value like a school. [SPEAKER_01]: He probably does want to get signed in December, right? [SPEAKER_01]: He probably wants that to happen before he goes because there's not a lot, I don't think that there's a lot of guys who are going to get crazy money this year, though. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't I can't think of anybody off the school has taken all the press when it comes to the big contract and he's a Scott Boris guy, so you know he's really going to get paid. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's nobody else that's that I could think of that's out there, so. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you see what happens when it gets close to the beginning of the season and someone like Kyle Tucker, who thinks he's going to get a $500 million deal, it gets closer and closer and closer and then he loses that leverage and he's got to sign a much shorter deal, which he still gets paid a really good amount of money, but it's not that like that longevity that these guys want.

1:10:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, remember that happened to Peter Lanzo like two years ago. [SPEAKER_00]: I was kind of embarrassing. [SPEAKER_00]: He kind of waited. [SPEAKER_00]: And when we went back to the match for another year for like a charity, what was it like, maybe like 30 million or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: And then he went to, then the follow you, he went to the Orioles for that big money. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think he was, he's also, it's got Boris guy. [SPEAKER_00]: Because he does that. [SPEAKER_00]: Scott Boris like to, he does that all Chaspi sting, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So, but yeah, it's gonna be interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: sometimes the offseason is funer than the actual season with all these little moves that are being made. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean for some teams for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Especially some of the bad teams. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, you could actually say for the Met's, right?

1:10:43 [SPEAKER_01]: The Met's like a super excited in the offseason and then the games start and they get so mad. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, this was this is a lot of fun. [SPEAKER_01]: We we get to talk some pretty like nuanced baseball stuff whenever we do get together and through the guys of giants versus Dodgers, but I always appreciate this and I always enjoy it. [SPEAKER_01]: So. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess that's going to be it. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll figure out, you know, we do these like three or four times a year, so we'll figure out the next time to do it. [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully the season will start and we can kind of get excited about the beginning of the season and do it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we could do like we always do these ever green episodes, where we are our best of favor, you know, well, maybe we haven't, you know, we haven't done that.

1:11:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I think would be a cool little like every green episode would be [SPEAKER_00]: I've never heard you tell me your favorite all-time giants team. [SPEAKER_00]: And we could do both. [SPEAKER_00]: We could do just your favorite year that you know, and then we could build our own all-time, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a good one. [SPEAKER_00]: And we could do it both ways, you know, and we could put the rules up and everything. [SPEAKER_00]: So that'll be a cool little game we could do in the future in the off season, you know, because [SPEAKER_00]: people still need their content in the offseason. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm down for that. [SPEAKER_01]: That'll be that would be fun. [SPEAKER_01]: It's sometimes talking about the histories more fun than talking about the day to day. [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: That's it from here. [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to thank Drayvin for hanging out and doing this. [SPEAKER_01]: I love doing this show.

1:12:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So that that'll be it from here for Drayvin. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm WC when we see you piece out.