Vitello as SF Giants Manager: Posey’s Kapler or Bochy? Pros & Cons | Thompson 2 Clark

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[SPEAKER_00]: with Drosion, throws to Sandberg on the pitches crowded a second base, Thompson has it, throws the first, it's over 27 years of waiting of Piltta in the Giants of WonderPenet.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to Thompson to Clark.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're in our offseason mode to this one's not live streamed either, and it'll be a shorter show,

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[SPEAKER_00]: and one topic only.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The giants announced that they have signed Tony Vattello to be their brand new manager.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Three is it a three year deal with a fourth year something or other?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, three years, 3.5 million fourth year option, which is weird.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that that number when it came up, I was expecting at least four.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's only $500,000 more a year than he was making at Tennessee.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So that one kind of threw me a little bit, but again, you're in the majors and you're staying at probably better hotels, so you get that better room service.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it is also a better scenario for his career to be in the mid league circuit because you can just look at Bob Melvin with a giant's let go.

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[SPEAKER_00]: he was a player and then he was managing for 20 some odd years and he's he made last year he made or this year he made more money than Vatello will make in his in any of his seasons and that's because of just he's he's a hireable guy you keep him around he's always he's

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[SPEAKER_00]: the top of the mountain for him, it's really good for him to be in the baseball manager ecosystem because people just get hired and fired all all the time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, now, now, now, he probably could have stayed at Tennessee for as long as he wanted.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He could have just written down how many years he wanted to stay there and they, nothing would have probably happened there unless he just, unless the team just went to hell.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a little bit of a risk in that he's kind of

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[SPEAKER_00]: for the bright lights in the big city of of being the giant's manager.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, at the same time, if

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[SPEAKER_00]: things don't happen correctly, you know, I could see teams really not being interested in him specifically because of how he does things, but this is also, he seems like a bet on myself kind of guy and I think that's what Buster is buying here is just that confidence.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is like a very, it seems like something that he would do rather than stay at a college for a bunch of years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, worst case scenario after a year, it's a disaster.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's got close to $10 million.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's still under 50 years old and he can go back to any college team that he wants.

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[SPEAKER_01]: At that point, I mean, any college team would take him.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There would be at least 10 knocking down his door to come to them to fix their programs.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of, you know, almost a no-loose situation for him.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If he never really had aspirations to be a manager in the major leagues,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, suddenly now he is.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, one, all that took is one person to come knocking.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that one person, you know, is a world champion three time world champion who's running a major league organization and a fantastic city.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And and with a roster that could potentially win next year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Puster said, or this was in the Giants press release, we're thrilled to welcome Tony to the Giants family, Tony's one of the brightest, most innovative and most respected coach in college baseball today throughout our search, Tony's leadership competitiveness and commitment to developing players stood out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: His ability to build strong cohesive teams and his passion for the game aligned perfectly with the values of our organization.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We look forward to the energy and direction he will bring along with the memories to be made

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you and I are going to each give a pro and a con or something we might be worried about with this deal and we'll use that as the basis of this conversation you've been reading everything I've been reading everything I will say and and maybe I should save this but maybe I'll just get it out of the way as my biggest worry or my biggest con.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We said all of the same things about Farhan and Gabe Capwell, like if it just feels like that type of conversation and for one season.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That was like some of the funnest baseball we have ever seen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not saying that that was all bad because we did have a very memorable season.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we got that like 107 win season and unfortunately, because of the wild card and how that works, the Giants kind of got screwed out of a possibility of playing longer into the playoffs and they just played the Dodgers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They played each other, you know, a coin flip kind of series and the Giants fell short.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There, there does feel like this sort of, oh, you know, and, you know, Tim Calcame, I heard him talking to, I think he was one of his podcasts he was saying that one of the things about capler and zady.

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[SPEAKER_00]: that I don't think it was said this way, but it was sort of, this is how people felt about them was that they just thought that they were the smartest in nobody else was on the same wavelength as them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so in that way, it's easy for those guys when things don't happen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to see people enjoy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're fall down right there they're come down when when it's not a hundred seven wins every season now from this perspective with a vitallo

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't sense that he believes he's a smartest guy in the room.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What it seems like is that he believes in the power of personality.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He believes in his ability to be ready, ability to compete.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And those are all really good things in not only just a manager, but in a player like those are the things you like if we brought this guy in

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[SPEAKER_00]: Number four hit or I'm like this is perfect.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is the kind of guy you want to be in the middle of this lineup But as as the manager

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[SPEAKER_00]: I do wonder about some of that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it goes back to the capler thing because when I can remember a very distinct conversation on this podcast, the giants are beating the hell out of the podries and Mauricio Dubon dragbunts when the giants are winning by many, many runs.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so we were like on this show going like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Are we supposed to be okay with that now even though you and I were playing like it was so frowned upon and it was and nobody else and don't forget nobody else was doing it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this wasn't like we were the third or four team to like, oh, okay, we're catching on to some sort of analytic thing that is showing that eight runs is blah, blah, blah, blah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's not like it was a first time deal.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, shoot.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What do we do with that?

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[SPEAKER_00]: The thing about it was the thing that sort of made it funny was we were just making fun of Matt Williams's reaction because he's wanted to fight everybody on the giant side so I think he's still nice.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He might still I don't think he's forgiven the giants for that moment by the way that might have been why he's kept sending runners to the plate is like getting you guys back.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But

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[SPEAKER_00]: So like I just I just have a lot of the same feelings.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm not saying that Vitalo style is to like run it up, but some of his style seems to be a little bit like.

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[SPEAKER_00]: a football player's mentality like this there's videos of this guy running into the diving into the crowd when they won the college world series and body surfing and punching people and and so there is some of that which works I imagine when you're doing that with 20 year olds like they're just jazzed up because that's how they are in their terms probably and and so there's a level of that where you like okay I get it from the college perspective

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, Raphael Devers like, you know, thinking about an at bat and Vatello coming over to him and like Drew Gilbert's like chewing on Devers' sleeve and Vatello's like trying to pump, and I'm just like, this this, he's probably this like, just leave me alone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm ready to hit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what's going on?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The that is my one worry and I'll come back with the positive don't worry about that is my one worry, which is it feels so that's her con if it's a little capillary revisited and I don't like those feelings because

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[SPEAKER_00]: When Kapler was done, we washed our hands so that we were like, okay, that was an experience and it wasn't the best experience at the end.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that is my first, that is my one con and then I'll come back.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and I see that, I definitely see that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I see we're coming from.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think now my thought on that con is that

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[SPEAKER_01]: The stuff we saw from Kapler, I think was a little more robotic nose in the book.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Type of stuff like that, you know, you're up eight nothing, analytics says, we're only in the, what was it?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Sixth inning.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember what it was.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he knows he does line changes and he knows that he's not going to have pinch hitters Possibly in the you know seven eighth and ninth innings because he's used his bench and so he wants to to to tack on a couple more runs Do bond versus this guy blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right that that's what we got from capital we had to we had to dissect the analytics when it came to Gabe Kapler

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think what we're going to see more from Vitalo is going to be not so analytic heavy, but I think it's going to, it's going to be more emotional heavy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's going to be some emotional stuff that were like, what the heck just happened there?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that I think that's what we're going to see more of, you know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, do you want to go with a pro or do you want to start with your con?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let me go Hang on one second.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let me go.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to pull up my Where is it?

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[SPEAKER_01]: There it is sorry about that Okay, so I'm gonna go with my you want to go pro-con You choose the this is I'm gonna go

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna go pro.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm gonna go pro.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You went con, I'm gonna go pro.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Busters, he's got Buster Posi's approval.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I go with, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: If Buster Posi is putting his stamp of approval on a three-year deal for this guy with no major league experience, I'm good with it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I said earlier, Buster's a winner and the fact that Vitalo gets a call from a winner

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[SPEAKER_01]: and the winner wants him to come and manage his team work closely with him on personnel, on decision-making, when it comes to, you know, starting pitching, analytics for relief pitching, pinch hitting, late in games and whatnot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think just having that stamp of approval from Buster, it's honestly good enough for me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, the Buster hasn't even been,

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[SPEAKER_01]: God hired.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I say that in quotation marks.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, hire yourself.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm approved by the poor pretty much.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't even think it's been 12 months, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it has not been 12 months.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So the fact that Buster has even been had a year in the position.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he's going and getting himself his first manager.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is his first manager.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's

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[SPEAKER_01]: I am now starting to put my stamp all over this team.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I came in, it was Bob Mellon, I uped him for a year, we went south, I decided that wasn't the way to go, I want to start fresh and then also when you see you see guys like.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, William Domus and Devours.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and Drew Gilbert, these guys want to have fun playing the game of baseball.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They, they are smiling.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're having a good time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're joking with each other.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're joking with the other team.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If you've got a manager who's loose and can let other guys maybe who want it to loosen up and we're a little bit afraid to maybe they can loosen up as well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If you're playing loose baseball,

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a huge advantage for a team that's kind of on the, they're a fringe team.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Giants are a fringe team and we say that all the time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, one of those teams that you've got to, you've got to do everything right and you've got to walk the line.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You've got to, uh,

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[SPEAKER_01]: make plays.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You have to have instinctual base running techniques.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You've got to track down balls in the outfield with a little bit of an extra jump and positioning in the outfield.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's all kinds of things that Giants have to do to win ball games because they're not the most talented team out there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's just not who they are.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But if you can do that with a loose style and Buster Posey overseen this whole thing says this is the guy this is the guy that's going to take us there and gives you that confidence I mean you you read paddle that just book yeah so.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that little segment there about Buster Posey in 2021, saying, we don't have a team just to win the wild card.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to win the division yet.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And just getting it out there and saying that out in the clubhouse and in the air can give you that motivation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know, installing a guy like Vitalo, I think can do wonders for confidence and everything.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how many Bob Melvin post game, and I don't want to bash on the guy, but how many Bob Melvin post game conferences did we see, or he's like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know, in the middle of a losing streak.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how to fix that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I come, you know, as a Rams fan, I used to watch Mike March.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'd score 45 points in a game, turn over the ball five times, and he would just look and go, shoot, we'll fix that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, that was our running joke as Rams fans.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This shoot will fix that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But there was no fix.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there was no, we're not scoring seven runs a game and making three errors and winning seven to five.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And there's nothing to fix.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's so many other things to fix and just getting the, yeah, I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how to go from here and I don't know what this is and whatnot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was just heartening.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think Vitalos,

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[SPEAKER_01]: attitude, you know, flip on that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think him coming in there and giving confidence.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to be a big deal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have one thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that backs up your point and I don't come with a small counter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the giants want a world series in 2010 and Andrew Baggerley wrote a book called The Band of Misfits.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Great book.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Brian Wilson, Tim Lincicum,

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[SPEAKER_00]: characters, not your, you know, not your boring kind of players.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the giants can be like Buster was on that team.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like he was probably the most mature guy on the team even those like 22 years old.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But he was on that team.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So he saw how the chemistry worked there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The, the, the, the, the, the

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to think of Jonathan Sanchez, like just the weirdness of Jonathan Sanchez, so you can have those personalities and they may make you lose or like you just said, the giants have some guys who could fit that mold of the the band of miss fits.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I like that part.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That was a fun team.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That might have been the most fun team to watch ever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Are you good if this team wins 86 games and it's fun to watch if they're in the mix?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know if they're playing You know in a short series for the opportunity to win more for sure you're you're definitely down with it, but I want to go back on one thing that you said You talked about those guys and playing loose

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're starting left field or might play the loosest of everyone to lose and he might say who lose and we love him, Elio Ramos is like we root for him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We want him to be excellent, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like he's we've the next year will be like his 9th or 10th year in the system, something like that, which is insane to think about.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, but at that point, there is playing loose and playing with chemistry and playing for fun, and then there is like the opposite of fundamental baseball.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And there were sometimes last year where you're just like, what is this doing?

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what's happening?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they probably when it comes from a talent standpoint, they have less room for error than some of these better teams.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If his form of baseball, if his brand of baseball actually takes advantage of that and these guys who do like to have fun, they do get more confident.

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[SPEAKER_00]: great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to work the same for everybody, but some in some cases, you have guys that you give them a little bit too much rope and they, you know, they may not be, they may not do good with it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They may not do be great with all that independence.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so he'll have to sort of figure that out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if I see this dude shot gunning beers with some of the players in the game, I don't know, I'm going to be like, okay, we're going a little bit too far here, but so I definitely, I definitely see that how that could be good and I think you have to sort of manage it in a way as well to make sure that it's not over the top.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and to that point, though, last season, I don't know if you felt the same, but there were times where it was almost would do those things.

20:12.641 --> 20:16.830
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, why is he not immediately bad?

20:16.850 --> 20:17.492
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?

20:17.852 --> 20:20.839
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think Vitalo will do that because they're,

20:20.819 --> 20:24.143
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but him and Buster have talked about accountability.

20:24.223 --> 20:31.611
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't couldn't bench him though, because your replacement player was it in like two ten and struck out, you know, 50% of the time.

20:31.631 --> 20:32.332
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's the problem.

20:32.352 --> 20:44.245
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's, I know, but I think it's, and just one game or the rest of said game, you know, say it happens at the fourth inning, the rest of the game is out, and it's a message to say, look,

20:44.225 --> 20:54.098
[SPEAKER_01]: you got to have your head in the game and Buster and Vitalo have talked about that on numerous occasions separately about accountability for fundamentals.

20:54.699 --> 21:05.794
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that might have been what frustrated Buster a little bit last year is at Bob Melvin was supposed to also have, you know, be a very well-prepared coach and they were or by all accounts.

21:05.774 --> 21:12.944
[SPEAKER_01]: but then you see it on the field translated into something different and there's no accountability and then it keeps happening.

21:13.404 --> 21:31.869
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think at that point I think that's kind of what might put Buster over the edge to say look we need to have a coaching here that is going to hold players accountable from the top down and can't it can't be from Logan web down it's got to be from the top down and so I think that is part of why the change happened.

21:32.110 --> 21:34.633
[SPEAKER_00]: One question before we

21:35.558 --> 21:59.136
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you worried that this is an overcorrection to an overcorrection and I'll explain when I'm talking about, which is Yeah, Gabe Kapler, like you said, heavy analytics, he's a little bit robotic, but though his brand of stuff is kind of like new agey in some ways and You know that the man would sniff a chocolate cake because he didn't want to eat like just, you know, he's just an interesting dude.

21:59.116 --> 22:01.522
[SPEAKER_01]: And this wasn't his cake at stake.

22:01.542 --> 22:05.793
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it wasn't that when you're a cake that was shaped into a stake.

22:06.174 --> 22:09.463
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then when Farhan

22:09.967 --> 22:13.995
[SPEAKER_00]: has to kind of let him go with the idea of like dude, you got to let him go or else we're letting you go.

22:14.035 --> 22:30.507
[SPEAKER_00]: Then he brings in kind of the opposite guy, like the overcorrection of a Gabe Kapler, like Bob Melvin, like the former base, the former player who is, you know, just the old staggie guy, you know, in the dugout.

22:31.010 --> 22:36.781
[SPEAKER_00]: And then now, it's almost like, since that wasn't Buster's guy, Melvin wasn't Buster's guy.

22:37.322 --> 22:45.717
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like, okay, now we're going to overcorrect and we got to go away from the old Stodgy guy to like another new guy.

22:45.797 --> 22:50.506
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, it's just an interesting pattern.

22:50.566 --> 22:53.912
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know, like, I guess Logan Webb is maybe the only guy.

22:53.892 --> 22:58.500
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Wilmer would Logan Webb Wilmer who else would have played under a capler.

22:58.780 --> 23:06.253
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to go with their players So it'd be interesting to hear their perspective of the wild swings in the in the personality of their manager.

23:06.273 --> 23:15.428
[SPEAKER_01]: Tyler Rogers would have been another one Camilo right Camilo was it well, they're not going to play for I mean they're not with a team anymore, but I'm just saying yeah, but

23:16.184 --> 23:25.157
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I get where you're coming from, but we always forget that Bob Melvin was kind of a new, he was in the ground level of modern analytics, right?

23:25.297 --> 23:28.121
[SPEAKER_01]: Moneyball, on-base percentage, all that stuff.

23:28.141 --> 23:36.232
[SPEAKER_01]: So he had to, he had to, some dabbleing in it and he knew about it and he used it and it was given to him.

23:36.292 --> 23:39.677
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think he was a little bit, he was more like 75, 25.

23:39.910 --> 23:46.360
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it kind of felt like GameCapper was like 95, 5 analytics, right?

23:46.400 --> 23:52.048
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't a whole lot of, I didn't get a whole lot of feel for the game from Kapler.

23:52.088 --> 23:55.413
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it was more like these are the numbers.

23:55.733 --> 23:56.755
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what's going to work.

23:57.196 --> 24:03.445
[SPEAKER_01]: If it doesn't work, we keep doing it because odds say it's going to work at some point.

24:03.605 --> 24:06.930
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of felt like that's how Kapler went.

24:06.910 --> 24:12.897
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Bob Melvin did a little bit of that, but he also had more of a feel for, okay, it's time to change the closer.

24:13.057 --> 24:15.160
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it's time to do this, do that.

24:15.921 --> 24:22.308
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think with Vitalo, I don't even know it's so hard to say because we don't know exactly what we're going to get.

24:22.328 --> 24:32.901
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't watch any Tennessee games, but I have seen him talk about analytics and how they use them in the game.

24:32.881 --> 24:41.955
[SPEAKER_01]: So that is, it's going to be there, and I think Buster's opening press conference when he was hired, hired himself.

24:42.757 --> 24:48.386
[SPEAKER_01]: He talked about how they wanted to have analytics, but they also wanted to have a feel for the game.

24:48.406 --> 24:53.674
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you might be getting closer to like a possibly a 50, 50 with Vitalo.

24:53.654 --> 24:59.465
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, this is not, I don't know a hundred percent because, you know, we don't know his game that well.

25:00.507 --> 25:12.348
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think we might be closer to a 50, 50 with this type of guy because again, he's 47, he's young, he's been working with college kids and college kids need to know analytics.

25:12.449 --> 25:17.518
[SPEAKER_01]: They need to get their swing trajectory up there.

25:17.498 --> 25:33.073
[SPEAKER_01]: ball rotation, everything spin rate, all of that, they need that because if they're going to get drafted into the majors, which is what they want to do, as soon as you get through, you've got to know that stuff because it's going to be given to you to work with to make you better.

25:33.834 --> 25:42.882
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where a lot of praise came from that Vitalo used a lot of that at Tennessee, and that's why these guys would win with a lot of heart, too.

25:43.343 --> 25:46.746
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you can mix the heart with the

25:47.907 --> 25:48.708
[SPEAKER_01]: you could go far.

25:49.068 --> 25:54.374
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, okay, here's my pro and I'm going to use for for Bay Area people.

25:54.434 --> 25:56.996
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually saw somebody use this already.

25:57.077 --> 26:02.482
[SPEAKER_00]: Tim Calcami use this direct analogy and it made me, it made me think a little bit.

26:02.522 --> 26:14.775
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, these two people are not exactly saying Vatelo is not

26:15.076 --> 26:26.398
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we, I think last time you had mentioned Mac Scherzer in his relationship, and if not, that is one of his big cheerleaders is Mac Scherzer, who's just vouching for him.

26:28.041 --> 26:31.347
[SPEAKER_00]: The 49ers, when they were in

26:33.925 --> 26:37.629
[SPEAKER_00]: probably worse off than the giants have been these last few years.

26:37.749 --> 26:39.411
[SPEAKER_00]: They were worse than 50 50.

26:39.651 --> 26:45.358
[SPEAKER_00]: They were, you know, they were winning six to eight games, six, seven, eight games a year.

26:46.118 --> 26:48.000
[SPEAKER_00]: Mike's single Terry was the coach.

26:48.942 --> 26:53.587
[SPEAKER_00]: They were, they had really good players and they just couldn't figure out how to put it all together.

26:53.627 --> 27:01.215
[SPEAKER_00]: They drafted Alex Smith and he just, he just does not have a

27:01.904 --> 27:08.235
[SPEAKER_00]: Then they bring in this kind of interesting personality by the name of Jim Harbaugh.

27:09.481 --> 27:29.054
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was doing stuff like chess bumping players and headbutting helmets and really understood the mental and emotional capacity that each player had and what they needed to do to prepare.

27:29.494 --> 27:32.299
[SPEAKER_00]: He understood how to basically say,

27:32.279 --> 27:37.044
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, Alex has been here for a while and and he's my guy like I don't I don't care about it.

27:37.084 --> 27:40.869
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't like we're not going to bring anybody else in to he's he's the starter from day one.

27:41.950 --> 27:49.578
[SPEAKER_00]: And that really enabled Alex to not have to be a worry ward, which he had pretty much been for his first several seasons of the nighters.

27:50.019 --> 27:56.346
[SPEAKER_00]: So he comes in like, you know, chest puffed out a little bit first time in his life guy believes in him and it's not only just a guy.

27:56.386 --> 27:58.388
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also a guy who played in the league.

27:59.482 --> 28:11.297
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've seen it at that level what a force of personality can do to players who, I mean, let's face it.

28:12.058 --> 28:28.780
[SPEAKER_00]: William Domus, Matt Chapman, those are those are your bangers, Raphael Devers, all three of those guys, if you looked at their offensive seasons, you would say that was probably

28:29.671 --> 28:41.427
[SPEAKER_00]: if they were a little bit better than they were to the giants when a couple more games and and maybe that's all it would have taken for them to make the playoffs is like, you know, Matt Chapman, he just had to be a little bit better.

28:41.808 --> 28:44.071
[SPEAKER_00]: You're your best players have to be a little bit better.

28:44.352 --> 28:54.666
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what you saw with Harbaugh is he brought in this sense of confidence, but also knowing that they had the players like he knew the roster was strong.

28:54.646 --> 29:12.694
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe you can look at it from that perspective and say, well, this roster is actually better than people think and it's really about how to get these guys in better situations and believing in themselves and this confidence and whatever it is.

29:12.774 --> 29:17.802
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I do think there's a little bit of a different environment for that in football, then baseball.

29:18.203 --> 29:38.237
[SPEAKER_00]: like one three hour football game where people are doing smelling salts and stuff just to get their minds right and like that's a little different than this long 162 game season where it's just a grind this is a grind day in and day out, but I do think if he's the right guy.

29:38.774 --> 29:44.641
[SPEAKER_00]: That is what would be the equivalent of someone like a Jim Harbaugh who comes in.

29:44.701 --> 30:02.281
[SPEAKER_00]: Now the thing about Jim Harbaugh is he just, he cannot stay in one place for long because that personality does eventually grind on you to some point and maybe even worse to the people who are your bosses who maybe you don't treat as your bosses, and that's as early.

30:02.381 --> 30:07.026
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is what I like about this hire is can this version,

30:07.006 --> 30:15.216
[SPEAKER_00]: of a human being, work in baseball, where the Bob Melvin's of the world exist for a reason.

30:15.817 --> 30:16.798
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not a shot at Bob.

30:16.838 --> 30:19.581
[SPEAKER_00]: Bob has been successful in different episodes.

30:19.601 --> 30:22.024
[SPEAKER_00]: He just did not have what it took for this team.

30:22.445 --> 30:29.233
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you can do it, you know, why not do it with the giants who are just

30:29.939 --> 30:34.145
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're boring to most people, you know?

30:34.245 --> 30:38.972
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what that's what was different about those championship teams is they were not boring.

30:39.112 --> 30:59.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they were actually kind of crazy and they had strong personalities and they had, you know, mad bumps, not rockets and, you know, and Brandon Belt, you know, put in the sea on his jersey and they had stuff like that where you're like, okay, like they're kind of fun and they're kind of goofy.

31:00.044 --> 31:02.588
[SPEAKER_00]: like maybe our teams need to be a little bit more fun and goofy.

31:02.628 --> 31:21.276
[SPEAKER_00]: So, without seeing him, I understand the idea and I do think that if he works, I think I understand it more now than I did when we first heard the news that this was a possibility.

31:21.745 --> 31:32.020
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and and here's something to think about too that I kind of I woke up this morning and start thinking more about this because the new we were doing the show today and I was like, you know what?

31:33.903 --> 31:41.053
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe and we all know that Buster has his ways of doing things, but he could be a genius here thinking that.

31:42.907 --> 31:48.880
[SPEAKER_01]: We had Bob Melvin who played in the 80s and has been around, you know, major league teams ever since.

31:49.201 --> 31:54.673
[SPEAKER_01]: That Bruce Boachie who's played in the 70s has been around major league teams ever since.

31:55.976 --> 32:00.105
[SPEAKER_01]: What if we grabbed a very successful college coach?

32:00.980 --> 32:02.642
[SPEAKER_01]: It's 2025, all right?

32:02.982 --> 32:05.064
[SPEAKER_01]: These guys from the 70s and 80s.

32:06.265 --> 32:09.228
[SPEAKER_01]: It's 2025, if you see what I'm getting at.

32:09.248 --> 32:11.311
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no ageism, I'm just in.

32:11.951 --> 32:21.561
[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't we grab the most successful college coach right now, plug him in as manager, because he's had the experience to see what's coming.

32:22.562 --> 32:24.944
[SPEAKER_01]: What's coming through the minor league system?

32:25.385 --> 32:26.806
[SPEAKER_01]: What type of players?

32:27.247 --> 32:30.430
[SPEAKER_01]: What type of game?

32:30.916 --> 32:38.753
[SPEAKER_01]: It's coming through the majors and the minor league system and the next couple of years and we'll be in the majors in two to three years.

32:39.955 --> 32:42.401
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of how I'm looking at this.

32:42.661 --> 32:47.271
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Buster wants to get a little ahead of the game and say I've got a guy.

32:47.251 --> 32:53.763
[SPEAKER_01]: who can talk about our minor league system as well, who could talk about development, what do we need at the minor league system?

32:53.783 --> 32:56.288
[SPEAKER_01]: So he could also lend the hand there as well.

32:56.308 --> 33:05.125
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when these guys are all up and the game is different in 2028, he's been installed for a couple years and he's ahead of the curve.

33:05.257 --> 33:05.798
[SPEAKER_00]: No.

33:05.998 --> 33:06.940
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a great point.

33:08.103 --> 33:15.377
[SPEAKER_00]: He's if he has the pulse of the young player, that would be definitely a positive.

33:16.399 --> 33:25.678
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's really about your staff because, you know, for being fair, a lot of the players are coming from international.

33:25.760 --> 33:29.844
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you do need the pulse for that as well.

33:29.944 --> 33:36.491
[SPEAKER_00]: So it'd be, you know, those on his staff to really get through, help him get through to those players too.

33:36.511 --> 33:37.092
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.

33:37.112 --> 33:37.352
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

33:37.432 --> 33:43.539
[SPEAKER_00]: So last, last one, you have your slight negative or icon and then I'll let you have it.

33:43.559 --> 33:43.659
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

33:43.679 --> 33:49.725
[SPEAKER_01]: I got my con and it's a tough one because the media is the media.

33:49.807 --> 33:54.573
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's going to be a lot of leeway, you know what I mean?

33:54.873 --> 33:56.095
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's already started.

33:56.295 --> 33:56.595
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

33:56.655 --> 34:09.611
[SPEAKER_01]: And not just, I'm not talking Bay Area Media, but Bay Area Media is going to be a little bit lighter than the rest of baseball media across the country, sports media across the country.

34:11.032 --> 34:14.937
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to take their digs and their shots of the giant start out one in five.

34:16.064 --> 34:41.363
[SPEAKER_01]: it's going to be a failed experiment in major league baseball media across the country already if that there's not going to be much leeway now again we're going to give it where the fans as you know Francisco media is going to give it a little bit um the first year there's going to be a honeymoon phase it's probably going to be two three four five months maybe even all starbreak I'm kind of see how things are going but I think right off the bat

34:41.343 --> 34:50.997
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the biggest con is going to be, he's going to be hammered in the media if things aren't going well within the first two to three weeks of his major league stint.

34:51.718 --> 35:00.771
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, you know, that could be fair if things are looking goofy on the field and things are looking like it shouldn't happen, but again, I think he's going to dial it back.

35:00.791 --> 35:02.473
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got 162 games.

35:03.263 --> 35:04.606
[SPEAKER_01]: he's going to dial it back.

35:05.327 --> 35:06.830
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen him in interviews.

35:07.471 --> 35:19.054
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen him on stage doing it giving talks and even during those he's not, I mean, he's not running around and, you know, the throwing stuff in the air and, you know, spit and fire or anything.

35:19.094 --> 35:20.276
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just, he's talking.

35:20.296 --> 35:21.118
[SPEAKER_01]: He's engaging.

35:21.158 --> 35:21.879
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing.

35:21.919 --> 35:23.382
[SPEAKER_01]: He's very engaging.

35:23.362 --> 35:33.432
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Drew Gilbert said he's persuasive, you want to run through a brick wall after you talk to him, you buy into what he's got to sell.

35:33.913 --> 35:52.592
[SPEAKER_01]: I did see another quote he said he really, and this is from Vitalo himself that he has a quote from Joe Madden that he has used all his career and it's if you don't fight me on the big things, I won't fight you on the little things.

35:52.572 --> 36:03.849
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that could play well with this team as well because if you're talking big things, big philosophy and he says, don't fight me on the big philosophy, buy in with that big philosophy and let's run with it.

36:04.730 --> 36:10.238
[SPEAKER_01]: I won't fight you on the small stuff or there's some small stuff that you do that's different than this and that is working for you.

36:10.258 --> 36:11.340
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go with it.

36:11.320 --> 36:16.487
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's going to be adaptable, but yeah, I think the medium is going to hammer him if things don't go well.

36:16.587 --> 36:29.063
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what, you know, where I think the biggest critic is going to be is in the current baseball operations world of all the nerds and the smart guys.

36:29.183 --> 36:32.988
[SPEAKER_00]: And because this is against the grain, right?

36:33.208 --> 36:35.691
[SPEAKER_00]: They want one of their own.

36:35.671 --> 36:53.576
[SPEAKER_00]: To be, you know, not not one of their own necessarily because those are baseball ops who but the people who they think are the next big thinkers they want those guys to get the opportunities and I'm not sure if I tell you is in that list of, you know, here are the really smart guys who can, you know, who can change baseball.

36:53.896 --> 36:56.159
[SPEAKER_00]: He, you know, he comes out of the left field a little bit.

36:56.179 --> 36:58.843
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do wonder how that.

36:59.347 --> 37:06.132
[SPEAKER_00]: area of of baseball is going to react to this because that you've already sort of seen stuff you've seen some folks are like yep.

37:06.915 --> 37:11.331
[SPEAKER_00]: He if you want to take a risk he's the guy to do it and then you've seen other stuff for their like.

37:12.307 --> 37:15.574
[SPEAKER_00]: who's this weird dude like how's he going to play?

37:15.934 --> 37:31.446
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you if you want to bring in somebody with an interesting personality, it's going to play better in San Francisco than it's going to play in the Midwest, then it's going to play in the south, you know, in Texas.

37:31.426 --> 37:36.232
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so to that extent, you know, it'll play better here than it'll play in New York.

37:36.352 --> 37:43.921
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's an opportunity, uh, I guess it would play pretty well on a team with really low expectations.

37:44.002 --> 37:52.472
[SPEAKER_00]: And that might be the easiest place for someone that came to actually show his worth is like, you know, he's he's going into.

37:52.452 --> 37:56.137
[SPEAKER_00]: Colorado and taking over that whole thing, you know, but yeah.

37:56.157 --> 37:58.541
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I don't think he would have done it.

37:58.981 --> 38:06.672
[SPEAKER_01]: If Colorado would have called him and offered him the job, I don't think he would have had to be like one of the highest paid managers in the baseball.

38:07.774 --> 38:09.076
[SPEAKER_01]: Even then, I why.

38:09.096 --> 38:21.413
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why you would leave a cushy job like Tennessee to go to Colorado that has a track record of just taking a dump all over the field.

38:21.713 --> 38:26.741
[SPEAKER_01]: in your first major league job, I think that's why this is a very, very good fit.

38:26.861 --> 38:28.544
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even think like a Pittsburgh called him.

38:28.564 --> 38:33.631
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, you know, if the giants called and again, they have the roster and they've got what it takes.

38:34.192 --> 38:38.960
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's where this is one of the only situations.

38:39.420 --> 38:47.012
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there was rumor that, right, that Atlanta was in on that and then I think that was debunked and they said, no, Atlanta never called them and

38:46.992 --> 38:50.160
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, because at first there, I read that and go, oh, shoot.

38:50.200 --> 38:52.766
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we're fighting for Atlanta.

38:52.886 --> 38:54.270
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in Tennessee right now.

38:54.330 --> 38:55.332
[SPEAKER_01]: It's closer to home.

38:55.392 --> 38:56.294
[SPEAKER_01]: Here we go again.

38:56.334 --> 38:59.061
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but not ended up being nothing.

38:59.885 --> 39:04.429
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the giants are going to announce him a week from today.

39:04.449 --> 39:12.496
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see if we can get back and do another short show around that time frame when they do the announcement.

39:12.516 --> 39:19.042
[SPEAKER_00]: I may actually, if I can watch some of that stuff, I may have a blog post up on BSPMmedia.com about it too.

39:19.122 --> 39:25.308
[SPEAKER_00]: I just like the introduction notes as far as like, oh yeah, we're bringing this guy in.

39:25.388 --> 39:29.892
[SPEAKER_00]: I like writing it out and then it'll help when we have the conversation.

39:29.872 --> 39:30.893
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

39:30.913 --> 39:35.198
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right, that is it for our short show here under 40 minutes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.

39:36.239 --> 39:39.822
[SPEAKER_00]: Off season Thompson at Clark is just gonna kind of be like this.

39:39.903 --> 39:43.767
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's juicy stuff to talk about, we'll we'll we'll try and go live on our normal day.

39:43.827 --> 39:48.892
[SPEAKER_01]: But free agencies can look at a little, a little nicer one's free agency hits, I don't be fun.

39:49.032 --> 39:51.875
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, the Montreal Exposed Documentaries on Netflix.

39:52.736 --> 39:53.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, did that come out already?

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[SPEAKER_00]: It is, okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm halfway through it.

39:59.065 --> 40:14.963
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the most interesting thing yet, but I'm only halfway through it, but I'm at the point where they're talking about the 94 strike and I guess I just didn't realize how the strike just really killed that baseball team.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's kind of interesting to revisit that because the the base the strike was essentially the same problems that are going to exist after next year, which is.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The cheaper teams don't feel they can compete with the richer teams and there needs to be salary caps and all that stuff.

40:32.244 --> 40:35.128
[SPEAKER_00]: So same old, same old, he now 30 years later.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're salary caps and football, but not everybody hits the cap.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have teams that are non-competitive.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So again, I don't think salary caps can solve everything unless you force everybody to spend that money.

40:55.630 --> 40:57.814
[SPEAKER_01]: They're still going to be teams and say, yeah, we have a cat.

40:57.834 --> 40:59.136
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you imagine the open days?

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, now we're good.

41:01.439 --> 41:03.863
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're like, no, we're fine.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: No.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess if you're, if you're winning, I mean, you know, they once ball games last year, they weren't the worst team and baseball.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're just like, oh, like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: If we like playing in Sacramento and minor league parks, like we're good, like we don't really do anything else.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is all saying everybody loves it saves us money rent is cheap, all right, so we'll be back at some point probably next week though no promises.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Brian and I recorded last night talking the new season of the NBA and the Warriors and then Rod and I will be back Sunday after Niners and Texans so we'll more than likely you're going to be live streaming that game on YouTube and then the audio going up soon thereafter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, for Brad, I'm WG, see you when we see you piece out, piece.